getting a terrarium

[mindmaze128]

hello fellow neppers (© JJM enterprises, Inc. :biggrin:)

Well.....I have finally had to face reality....I'm getting a tank and making a terrarium for my highland neps... :\
I dislike having to do this, since it limits how much space the plants will have to grow, but it is my only choice, for the meantime that is. *I'm going to have something similar to Nep g's setup, with a fan for air circulation, a ultrasonic fogger for humidity, and water bottles filled with ice (gasp!!! :o) to cool it down. I'm also hoping to get a peltier eventually (either buying it off the internet or ripping it out of a mini-fridge) and connect it to the tank to cool it down even more. This will hopefully help my glabrata to get back on track. http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I'm telling you all this just to see if any of you have any recommendations or advice. I found the perfect tank, costs &#36110 but it has vents on the sides and comes with lights and a good lid. I'm not sure how many gallons, but It fairly high and wide, but not that long (which is enough for me since I only have 3 highlanders). I just hope that it's still there on monday. Thanks in advance.

Joel

BTW Ng: You don't have to put details on your highland setup here if you don't want to (I know that you've done that WAY too many times by now), but I would be happy to know of any tips or secrets that you may have! http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Stefano1]

what the heck is a peltier?

i am thinkin of makin a highland tank too sometime next year or so, mayeb ill make it this year but i want rajah next year, if everything goes good, ill plant ventrosica in it and test out to see if i can get the temps rajah likes, but it should be finished proly next sumer

and im getin a job in august, after my b day, hehe

[trashcan]

Its a cooling system based on the Peltier Effect.

http://www.arstechnica.com/guide/cooling/peltier-1.html
http://www.electrografics.com/tabs2a.htm
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=peltier+cooling

Pat" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?....g

Pat</a>

[nepenthes gracilis]

hahaha, yeah but I'll write them up for you again. http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif OK so you got Glabrata and what other two first off? I think a small cooling unit out of a refridgerator would be a GREAT idea! I may try that once our fridge burns out or get an old one or somehting. But my MAIN secrets are ******** ***** **** * * * ******* ***** **** ** * ********** **** ** * **. And *********. :biggrin:

Seriously though the main secrets I do for my Ultrahighlands is COOL IT DOWN most importantly and make the temps you wants STAY throughout the night. Liike I put my ice in at 9http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0PM and it stays 52F (10C) until 6http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0AM then starts to warm grdually up to 60F (15C) and then goes to about 70-80F(20-30C) the rest of the day. My other secret for ultrahighlands is plant them in living sphgnum. It REALLY helps them produce pitchers frequently and fully formed and it nice loose and airy for root structure development. and my last main secret is humidity,air ciculaiton and feeding. Just make sure air doesn't get TOO stagnant, it can becmoe a little but not like lowlanders, make sure humidity is 100% at night or very near there 80-90% is fine, and rember to always, even if pithers are VERY tiny STILL FEED YOUR PLANT SOMEHOW!!!! It will greatly make your wait for a mature palnt much shorter and you'll see increased growth and your plant will be healthier! http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[nepenthes gracilis]

Also here is my Rajah, and Madgascareinsis in my renovated terarium. The soil got nasty and I wasn';t goign to risk a very rare Nepenthes. You can see now the Rajah has put out two new leaves since you all last saw it and that the Mad is doing better too. Also This design with pots in tank is MUCH easier to take care of than a palnted terarium, you can get uop close with the palnts when you need to and feed them easier and water and everthing MUCH easier!!!!

http://a0.cpimg.com/image/92/A9/10234770-45fa-01600120-.jpg
7http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0 Am 63F

[Martin]

Hi,

there are many drawbacks with peltier elements...

1. I tried it once with one 50 Watt Element and it cooled down my terrarium only 1°C !!

2. water condenses on the cold surface. If it is really cold, ice will build and after getting big enough (or after shutting down the power) it will fall on your plants...
Mine didn't build ice but very cold water drops had fallen down on my plants. I doubt that they will like this.

3. Because of water condensing on the peltier element, humidity will significantly drop !

4. it consumes a lot of energie and the fans (for cooling the hot side) are noisy.

Martin

[mindmaze128]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Ng,

I'm going to put al least 3 plants in the terrarium with a 4th one as well if there is space. The plants are N glabrata, N sanguinea, N ventricosa, and N madagascariensis.

Joel

[nepenthes gracilis]

OK, those are all regular highlands so this will be farily easy to setup. http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif You'll have more than enough room for all of those plants as they are farily small,low, growers.

[mindmaze128]

Hello again ppl,

I finally went ahead and got the bad *** terrarium that I found. It has 3 cool features (glass lid, vents, and a hole in the glass to pass the humidifiers through it), and for &#036;59, I think it&#39;s a steal(the guy that sold it to me even told me that&#33;&#33;&#33; )&#33; *http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif It&#39;s 2&#39; long, 1&#39; wide, and 16.5" tall. It will hopefully last me a year or 2, since my plants are still small. Here&#39;s a pic:
http://mindmaze128.tripod.com/images/misc_stuff/terrariums/lo_highland_terrarium_1.jpg

now I just need to find the perfect lights and a way to cool it down&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Joel

[mindmaze128]

I forgot to ask before, How do you connect computer fans to a terrarium. Adding 2 fans to one of the vents would definitely help circulate the air and cool down the plants (especially with 2 bottles of ice in there&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) I don&#39;t know much about building circuits or anything like that, but If anyone knows a website where It explains this, please let me know. Thanks&#33;

Joel

[nepenthes gracilis]

10-4 buddy&#33; I am VERY impressed&#33; I wish i had side vents liek that&#33; To get CF hooked up you need to go buy 2 fans and 2 transformers which will lower the voltage down to operate them. I personally think it is a great idea but may be a little &#036;&#036;&#036;. I like the idea of the climate monitor, I am gonna get one from my tank now&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Seriosly&#33; I LIKE IT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I also like your your friends in the front. Are they guarding your tank?? http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Seeya and EXCELLENT JOB&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; NG

[Parasuco]

Do mads need ultra highland? Are they hard?

[nepenthes gracilis]

Madagascariensis, I find is a tough Nepenthes. It seems very slow and pokey in growth. I have it in Ultrahighland conditions growing side-by-side with my N.Rajah, it seems to be doing a little better but I am not really sure on whether it is a highland or lowland&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif So many debates over it&#39;s temperamental heritage it could be a Nepenthes with multiple growing conditions. Anyone care to come in and suggest, I was always puzzled on N.Madagascariensis.

[Parasuco]

Those burbs i as getting, I was planning on trading a few for some baby mads (so you get three mads, three burbs, remember?)... I dont think i should anymore, do you? If they need some ultrahighland stuff, i dunno... I&#39;m not quite ready to do that yet...

[nepenthes gracilis]

I shoulda mentioned that my N.Madgascariensis is still technically in a cutting stage so I am not 100% sure on it&#39;s average speed of growth YET. And me tradign you about Burbidgeae? I don&#39;t rember that. http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[mindmaze128]

Nep g, Parasuco is talking to me. http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I&#39;ll update the status of my terrarium later in the day, since I&#39;m getting the lights ready, and I&#39;m gonna get a piece of glass for a part of the lid that I already broke.... DOH&#33;&#33;&#33; *http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I&#39;m also hoping to get the fans in there once I know what exactly to do with them. So I need a transformer and 2 fans, but what do I do with those?&#33; I know where to get the fans, but where do I get the transformer? Can I get the stuff from RadioShack? Thanks

Joel

[Tony Paroubek]

They make small muffin fans that also run on standard voltage. Radio shack should have all types of stuff. You will probably need to wire up some sort of plug to them since most of them come with bare ends or a plug designed for attaching to computer powersupplies.
Tony

[mindmaze128]

Well, I sent a message to RP about the fans, and he explained how easy they are to connect. I&#39;m gonna go to Radioshack on monday and I&#39;ll see If I can find 2 cheap transformers. I finished making the lights for the terrarium, and I think they work well. All I have to do now is make a housing for them so that all of the light goes to the plants. After that, I&#39;ll see if I can get a system up to cool the plants down. I&#39;m hoping to finish this sometime next week. I&#39;ll keep putting pics of my progress here so stay tuned&#33;&#33;&#33; * http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Here&#39;s one now&#33;

http://mindmaze128.tripod.com/images/misc_stuff/terrariums/lo_highland_terrarium_2.jpg

Joel

[nepenthes gracilis]

Ahh&#33; Nice new brighter light&#33;&#33;&#33; Should really boost those highlands&#33; And 1 tip from me for colling is get lots of empty plastic bottles with a screw on top preferably and fill them up with water and freeze them solid, then they should kepe the tank nice a chilly thoughout the nihgt until 6 or 8 am or so. I&#39;ll post a picture of what I did tommorow.

[Joachim]

Joel,

I would try to get a complete power supply like the ones used for battery driven things. They are available with adjustable ouput voltages which is a big plus. Those fans get much less noisy when running slower with lower voltages. Also one of these power supplys should be enough for two fans you won&#39;t need two different ones.

I do strongly recommend against any device running on standard voltage which isn&#39;t specially suited for the very high humidity inside your terrarium - you do risk an serious electrical shock.

Joachim

[Dragonman]

Hey mindmaze, where excactly did you get the terrarium, just a garage sale or something? *&#036;59 isa steal&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mindmaze128]

DgM,

I got it at a pet shop at the mall.... It was the only one of its kind there so I think that&#39;s why i got it so cheap&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


*UPDATE*

I followed Joachim&#39;s advice and got a power supply (can&#39;t find any with adjustable voltages http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif ) to power the fans. The only problem is that THEY SOUND LIKE A JET ENGINE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I spent &#036;10 on one just to find that I can&#39;t sleep when I have it on&#33; Needless to say, that one is definitly going into my "useful-in-the-future" drawer until I get an orchidarium (when I manage to come up with a few thousand dollars that is) . I did manage to find a blower type fan at radio shack which doesn&#39;t make as much noise as the other ones (I&#39;m definitly getting another one of these). With that running and a bottle of ice in there, I&#39;ve gotten the temps down to 66F; not bad for a first try. I now have to make a cover for the lights to make it look pretty. http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I&#39;ll put a pic up once I get the lid ready and have all the fans in place.

l8r

Joel

[trashcan]

Are you using a PC fan? Mine is powered at 8volts (can&#39;t remember the amperage) and is fairly quiet. I have it sitting on top of a piece of plastic so it doesn&#39;t resonate on anything. The sound is barely noticeable with the lid off, and with it on, its completely silent. Good luck&#33;

Pat

[nepenthes gracilis]

66F is great for a first try&#33; That is good&#33; Know lower it down more by increasing your ice amount by two bottles the smae size, to figure out how much ice you&#39;ll need, figure out how many degrees the temp is lowered to 66 by the 1 ice bottle then multiple thta by 2 and bigno bango you can figure out just how many ice bottles you need to get it down to let&#39;s say 50F. OK know you got 1 ice bottle that lowers it to 60F then second OF THE SMAE SIZE and volume would lower it to 50 if the one ice bottle lowers the temperature 10 degrees. See what I am saying? http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[trashcan]

If I put in 50 water bottles, could I get the temps below freezing? ;-)

j/k

Pat

[mindmaze128]

Ng,

I get what you&#39;re saying. I&#39;m gonna put one more bottle in the terrarium tonight to see how cold it gets. The whole bottle of ice setup is gonna be temporary though, since I&#39;m planning to experiment with peltiers as soon as I find a suitable one. http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Tc,

The fans that I have found are all 12VDC computer fans. I have one from a 4 year old Aptiva PC which doesn&#39;t make nearly as much sound though. The blower type fan seems to do the trick, but I really have to find a way to stop the resonance in the tank.

Joel

[nepenthes gracilis]

I am gonna go for the peltier effect too as soon as he fridge goes, then I can rip it apart and see what I can do&#33; http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I see though why you want to get the peltier as you could have it on a timer and your plants would get cooled even though you weren&#39;t there&#33; I like the idea of that&#33; Why as a matter of fact a few weeks ago I had to increase my ice quantity for the Rajah terrarium as the temp would only go to 65-60F&#33;&#33;&#33; Not good, so i increased to a cold apck and now it battles the summer heat fine throughout the night.