View Full Version : How are cultivars made
02-11-2002, 12:36 PM
How exactly are cultivars of CPs, specifically VFTs, made? I found a webpage on a Dente style plant (sorry I used Ask Jeeves):
and it says they pollinated a Dente with a large trapped VFT to create this 'X-Jaws'. This makes it sound like you just rub two flowers together, which doesn't seem right. How are cultivars such as the Red Dragon created with tissue culture?
02-11-2002, 03:44 PM
Alvin, I suppose it would be right to say that cultivars aren't made but are selected. 'Dente' is actually a rare naturaly occuring mutant. The other Vft cultivars are just random occurances in tissue culture. They were not created, they just happened. Someone identified these plants as having unique caracteristics and further propogated them. If these plants still retained these qualities after years of growing without reverting back to there original form they are ready to be classed as a cultivar.
I was told that to see if you have a plant of cultivar status to show a picture of that plant to someone. Remove that picture and get them to tell you what was so special about the plant. If they can't remember then the plant didnt have any special properties. For a cultivar to become official the plants name and photo has to be published in an official publication such as a Book or horticultural magazine and the plant has to be spread among growers who recognise the plant under this name.
02-11-2002, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the information.
I have another question http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif : How are VFTs 'crossed'? ie. Green Dragons are a cross between the normal flytrap and Red Dragon.
02-11-2002, 05:44 PM
From what I understand, Green dragon is actually a 'sport' of red dragon. That means that a red dragon plant developed an offset that was the green dragon. make sense? erm....It happens quite a bit in other plants. Take carnations. A red flowering canation may one day produce a branch that keeps producing red flowers that are speckled in white. This branch retains these properties when propogated and keeps producing the red and white flowers withought turning back to red. The same has happened with the red dragon and the sport was named green dragon.
I read the website you posted. Crossing simply means pollinating the one venus flytrap with another. The plant called Jaws, was a cross between a regular 'dente' and a large trapped plant so they took the pollen from the large trapped plant and pollinated the dente (or it can be done the other way round of course) Some of the seedlings would then probably show some varying mixtures of the properties of both parents. The best one was selected and registered as the cultivar jaws.
Hope this has helped and I havent confused you to much!
02-12-2002, 01:15 PM
That makes sense, yes.
Thanks very much!
02-12-2002, 01:56 PM
Sorry if this has already been said... I read through pretty fast.
I think to say that a cultivar 'just happened' is perhapsnot the best way to put it. The Red Dragon was developed by Atlanta Botanical Gardens as a concerted effort, as was the Royal Red, by Triffid, or one of the other Australian CP houses. (can't remember witch) The Green Dragon is a cross back between a prototype red dragon, and a common flytrap. Out of this process, they achieved a particulary vigorous plant...
(I don't know that many know that) other than it's striking coloration, a Green dragon is far more vigorous than a common, and the red dragon... It is a very healthy cultivar... if you want a large plant fast, go for the green dragon... they are weeds compared to the common... they are FAST growers...
Any how... that was probably allready stated... but you guys are all getting so good at answering questions... your not leaving me anything but the crumbs! Stop learning so much! :-)
LOL... just kidding.. keep learning guys! You educate me to!
02-12-2002, 04:08 PM
So am I right in thinking that the Green Dragon is a Red Dragon which has reverted slightly back to be more like a typical VFT and by chance it also happened to be a vigorous example?
Now I am slightly confused by the term 'cross' - this makes it sound physically like a Red Dragon and normal VFT were 'mated' (I search for a better word:) ) in tissue culture, which is not what Richard is saying.
02-13-2002, 09:22 AM
As I understand it, that is exactly what happened, a Typical and a Red Dragon were mated, and ONE, and only ONE of their offspring was so remarkable, that the Green Dragon Cultivar was made.
You see, it is common in genetic breeding programs to cross into 'new blood' every now and again, you see, if your breeding for a certain trait, you are more often than not, breeding very closerly related specimens, breeding back into wild stock re-introduces vigour and vitality, and keeps the specimens in the program genetically viable.
As I understand it, the parents that created the Green Dragon were a typical, and an Almost Red Dragon... as I understand it... I could be wrong... but I remember hearing this some where.
02-13-2002, 12:06 PM
So in theory, I could pollinate all my VFTs in various ways and out of 100 seedlings one could be unusual?
I don't think I'll try it though http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
So are Atlanta Botanical Gardens still working on unusual VFTs? If I recall the Red Dragon was designed in 1996.
02-13-2002, 12:25 PM
well, yeah, I guess you could say that... I wouldnt get your hopes up... probably more on the order of 1 in a million or so...
02-14-2002, 01:06 PM
WOW, See, now ive learned something! I did read on a website somewhere that the green dragon was a sport of red dragon.
Ram, I agree with what you say about cultivars. I should have said that I suppose you could think forwards and plan out the type of plant you want, 'red pihrana' would be a good example of this but the chances of getting a plant wich is truly outstanding and unique are very, very slim. It is more likely that you will probably come across the plant in a bunch of seedlings wich exibits some unusual behavior and oh my god ive gone cross eyed! I think you know what i'm trying to say! http://www.**********.com/iBhtml/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
02-14-2002, 02:34 PM
okay you have driven me to post the red piranha story.(from ICPS newsletterVolume 28, No. 3) it is a cross of a dente and a red VFT developed in Europe. all of the germinated seeds(F1) were green. the one with the best dente triangular teeth was selected, then self pollinated. of those seeds, one quarter of the seedlings had red coloration, one of them looked just right and was isolated as the 'red piranha'.
cultivar requirements will differ between species, like whether it's monotypical or not- being only one species of VFT you can't exactly make hybrids, just types. However with a sarracenia like the Judith Hindle, you would have to be sure of the parentage(or reasonably sure as it seems) you couldn't just find a cool sarracenia hybrid and make it a cultivar unless you could chart it's parentage to species.
VFT cultivars Can happen by accident, it is happening to me. they must be unusual and hold their traits basically wherever grown.
EDIT- upon further reading, the dente VFT that was used in this cross was from a batch of wild collected plants;) I have also seen cup traps come from random seed.
(Edited by spacer at 3:06 am on Feb. 15, 2002)
02-14-2002, 06:23 PM
Hey Spacer! Just wanted to let you know that cup trap you sent me is still going strong... well.. it's in dormancy.. but it doubled in size this year.
02-15-2002, 05:12 AM
right on Ram, that was one Tiny bulb!
02-15-2002, 08:15 AM
All my other stuff had a great fall too... The oero sent up one more philodia, and then shut down for the winter.
Cant wait to take em all out of dormancy... the time is at hand... but I have to make sure that aphid infestation is whupped before I let-em loose to kill all the bees and flying roaches of San Antonio!
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