Newbie tank suggestion

[wickedthistle]

I've always wanted to setup a "ghost fish tank" themed aquarium. You know, with some freshwater fish that have see-through flesh, some ghost shrimp or crawfish, glow-in-the dark toys, a supplimental blacklight, spooky rocks...the whole 9 yards.

Thing is, I'm a newbie and I still have to pitch this idea to my parents because the cps have taken over my room and this will have to be a family tank. So it has to be fairly inexpensive, and easy to maintain. Nobody wants to see dead fish floating in a tank next to the dinner table. I have a 10 gal cp terrarium that I can convert, so I have the hood w/light and the tank itself. All I'd need is the pumps and critters right? I also have RO water - so I assume I won't have to wait for the water to settle for too long.

Here's where I need some help - please give me some suggestions for the type of fish to put in and their compatibility. I don't know any of the names so it's hard to research specific fish. One splash of color might be cool, I saw a pic of a blue crawfish somewhere. I'd prefer critters that "glow" or are "see-through" for this themed tank. I have access to a few mom and pop pet shops, a petsmart, and two mall petstores (yuck)

I know that tetras are rather see-through and easy plus many of them seem to glow. And I think the freshwater shrimp will keep down the algae count. Glassfish seem like a good choice. I have the feeling crawfish would munch on the fish...


So here's what's currently on my "possibilities" list:

Tetras (glowlight or neon)
Glassfish - and no, I won't buy the painted ones
Ghost Shrimp
Crawfish
Scud
Ghost Catfish (probably too big)

Anyone have any suggestions? If this tank gets made, I will certainly post pics! Thanks in advance!

[scottychaos]

good ideas!
except..a 10 gallon tank is really too small for what you want to do..cant keep much in one..
you could however keep a nice school of tetras in one..maybe 5-7 fish, but no more..(and *only* the tetras! any more than that and a 10gal tank will be overstocked..)
If I were king of the world, 10 gallon tanks wouldnt even be sold at all..IMO they are just too small to keep a healthy community..(and goldfish bowls would be totally illegal! http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

but..you can keep a nice small school!
just change 2 gallons once a week!
(drain out 2 gallons of old water, and replace with 2 gallons of new water..thats for a 10 gal..bigger tank = more gallons)
and rinse out the filter media in the old water when you do the weekly water change, and it will be fine!

[vft guy in SJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wickedthistle @ Sep. 30 2003,2:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also have RO water - so I assume I won&#39;t have to wait for the water to settle for too long.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ummm thats not true. You still need to cycle the tank. When setting up a new tank for the first time, I always stock it with plain old feeder goldfish (10 for &#036;1) for the first 6 weeks or so. What needs to happen is you need to produce a colony of bacteria to process the wastes produced by the fish. The first waste product is ammonia which is highly toxic. Bacteria consume this ammonia and in exchange produce the less toxic nitrites. These nitrites are then consumed by another bacteria to produce the benificial nitrates. This process takes several weeks with a new tank because the bacteria needed to do this job are not present in large quantities in plain water and it takes a couple weeks for them to reproduce to a large enough colony to handle the job. If you have a tank that is already up and running, you can jumpstart this process by adding a couple handfulls of the substrate (gravel) from the healthy tank into your new one. The substrate in the healthy tank will have the bacterial colonies that you need (but not in large enough numbers to avoid cycling the tank). Even still you would probably be better off to stick with the feeder goldfish for the first few weeks because if they die because of the unbalanced chemicals in the water its better to lose 10 cent fish over 3 or 4 dollar (or more) fish.

Good luck
Steve

[D muscipula]

Good summary, vft guy. *I recommend The Krib (http://www.thekrib.com/) for good aquarium info.

I disagree about banning the sale of 10 gallon tanks, though... they&#39;re great for tucking a few neps in the corner of a room. *http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

What really get me are the 1.5 gallon &quot;designer aquaria&quot; in any neon color you want- every time i go to Petco (shudder), some ditzy person is buying a designer aquarium in hot pink with five fish (four too many&#33http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif for it.

But i digress...

if you want to &quot;cycle&quot; the tank at with tropical fish - and some that are slightly less weedy than feeder goldfish - you can use platies. *They&#39;re like bindweed- impossible to kill. *As a bonus, if the conditions are good you end up with a whole bunch of babies to give away&#33;

One way to reduce the cycle time is to plant the aquarium with live plants. *The fish like them, they look nicer, and they help keep the water clean, too. *But you do need more lighting for that, and it might interfere with your &quot;black lighting&quot; setup.

One more suggestion: i hear that danios with the fluorescent jellyfish gene are available commercially now... that would really liven up a black-lit tank&#33;

[scottychaos]

so if we kill a few fish from ammonia poisoning while cycling a new tank, its ok because they are just &#036;1 fish? http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
no big loss?
I doubt the fish would feel the same way&#33;

if you are going to keep fish, you shouldnt consider them disposable..even if they are really cheap..

here is a much better way to cycle a new tank:

http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html

[vft guy in SJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scottychaos @ Oct. 01 2003,6:3http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/alien.gif</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so if we kill a few fish from ammonia poisoning while cycling a new tank, its ok because they are just &#036;1 fish? *http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
no big loss?
I doubt the fish would feel the same way&#33;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well.. *basically.. *yes. * Sorry.. but I dont get the same attachment to fish I normally buy to be devoured by triggers, groupers, and other assorted larger carnivours. Any fish that survive cycling become food too.. *so do the ones that die.. so its all the same to me. I dont have much of a problem with them dying of ammonia poisoning anyway. *Generally the only feeders that die on me go the very first night. I find feeders tend to be a lot like home depot CP&#39;s... sure you might be able to keep it alive if you know how, but buy at your own risk. If you want a real laugh, I still have a feeder in my current tank that I bought to cycle it with... *in 1993...

I do like that idea of fishless cycling, Im gonna bookmark that site and refer to it if I ever start another tank. It would be interesting to see how well it works. Thanks for the info. http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Steve

[wickedthistle]

Thanks for all the feedback on this&#33; Feel free to keep going of course&#33;

Well, the situation is I have the 10 gal with hood and a growlight, and two 20 gals of just tank. The reason why I mentioned the 10 gal before was because I&#39;m moving the neps currently in it to one of the 20 gal. Since I have to buy a shoplight(s) and growlight(s) for that, if I wanted fish it would have to be in the smaller tank because I&#39;m trying not to spend too much money&#33; I suppose I could use the extra 20 gal, but I&#39;d have to pitch that idea to my parents and add in the costs of all the accessories. I don&#39;t think they&#39;ll go for that plus I&#39;m not sure if I have time to take care of the larger tank unless they agree to help out.

I was also considering getting one of the long shoplights, and use it over both 20 gals. I could put the neps and ultrasonic mister in one, drosera and traps in the other or fish in one, plants in the other. Eh, I&#39;m rambling (allergy medicine). I&#39;m still waiting what my parents say about all this. I already pitched the tetras idea, and the glassfish idea. Of course, I&#39;d use the glassfish in the 20 gal. Wouldn&#39;t want to make them unhappy&#33;

[pond boy]

10 gals are good for fry too. What I would stalk would be a school of 4 glass cats and 12 ghost shrimp,but if you can afford a larger tank that would be way better.I recomend the wal-mart 29 gallon complete kit it costs just under &#036;90 and is a very good setup.

[Spectabilis73]

Okay... I have to point this out. The glass TETRA and the glass CAT are very commonly mistaken. The glass TETRA gros to be about 1 1/2 inches long, and about an inch tall, in the shape of a disk. Now, the glass CAT grows to be about 7-9 inches long, and over 1 1/2 inches tall, and when it gets big enough, will gulp down other fish (and shrimp)&#33; So be careful on what you get http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/alien.gif

-Spec

[wickedthistle]

*Update*
Got some great advice and here&#39;s what&#39;s going on:
Cycling tank with plants and ghost shrimp.
2 weeks - two glass catfish. The kind that won&#39;t grow over 2&quot;
3 weeks - add some golden or red tetras
4 weeks- small school of neon tetras

The fish store guy actually told me that the glassfish (glass tetras) are really hard to keep alive because of a fungus they are susceptible to so I don&#39;t think I want them anymore. Usually I don&#39;t trust the folks in the store, but it was a local fish shop and the fact that he recommended cheaper fish is a big clue that he wasn&#39;t just trying to sell me something more expensive. He was also was honest about other things as well, so my tank is turning out to be a bit different but still very cool.

Here&#39;s a pic, I&#39;ve added rocks from the store, Agate Beach, CA and Glass Beach (Fort Bragg, CA) to give it some interesting colors. The larger rocks are also agates or quartz. And the plants are real http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

And, my parents were pretty irate about the tank until after it was done. Now they&#39;re pretty happy to have it, and enjoy trying to find the 13 ghost shrimp in there.

http://myweb.lmu.edu/myeung/tank2.jpg

I do have a question about lighting though. Having trouble finding specs (that I understand) Backstory is that I was also getting lights for my terrarium and one of the lights I bought was on sale and opened. When I got home, I was lucky to find an aqua ray tube inside&#33; Must have been a returned light setup and the person forgot to switch out the tube. So basically I have the following lights and need help figuring what to put where. The aquarium does have live plants, so I&#39;m not sure if the aqua ray light specifically will work there or what since I don&#39;t have a box for that one:

Terrarium (needs two bulbs)
Aquarium (only holds one bulb)

Lights (all 18&quot;):
*GE 15w, 620 lumens, Color temp 5000K, 90 CRI Sunshine full spectrum light
*Philips 15w, 410 lumens, Plant &amp; Aquarium
*GE 15w, F1578-AR-FS Aqua Ray
*plenty of soft white tubes

I&#39;m definetly putting the full spectrum light in the terrarium, but unsure about which of the other two to put in the aquarium or terrarium. Aquarium needs to be for fish AND plants, and the terrarium needs to be able to grow my cps. If it helps, the plant and aquarium light looks peachy/pink (the one in the tank pic), and the aqua ray looks violet/bright white. Thanks in advance&#33; http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[pond boy]

You would have to have at least 4 ghost cats if they are kept in smaller groups they will actually die of loanlyness.

[wickedthistle]

Yeah, I can probably fit 4 in there...neon tetras are pretty small so there should be room.

Oh, and I think I&#39;ve solved by lighting questions (let me know if I&#39;m wrong). Found a GE .pdf with info.

Looks like the aqua ray is for salt and freshwater aquariums plus for corals and other aquatic plants. So I guess that&#39;s going in the aquarium.

The full spectrum and the plant &amp; aquarium looks like it can go in the terrarium.

[ledzeppelin842002]

Hi wicked, Thanks for the CP seeds http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I used to raise all sorts of fish. My current tank has quiet a variety of chichlids and community fish.

Neon Tetras are schooling fish, so you shouldn&#39;t purchase any less then 3. Most pet stores claim there is no way to separate Male from Female, but is not true. Males are a bit smaller then females and have a much slimmer body. mature Female tetras have a round belly (which means shes full of eggs). slim females will be noticed as a straggler behind the rest of the school. You should always be the one to pick out the fish.

There are so many precautions for ghost catfish. But i never took any seriously and all mine did fine.

GLASS FISH&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; id suggest you be very cautious with glass fish. These fish carry lots of diseases for some reason which can break out to the whol community. I wouldnt suggest getting these fish from commercial petshops (petsmart and petco). Ick was particularly the disease of choice, but also had my fair share of fin rot. And if your gonna treat the fish for a disease with that blue liquid stuff, do it in a different set up because that stuff will stain your silicon blue.

i think ghost catfish eat alage, but you wanna make sure that you have something that will. A Plecostomus or something like that.

some of the ghost shrimp may get eaten up. but its no worry.

anyways, hope you get your aquarium going.

[scottychaos]

here is the thing about live plants in aquariums..
you need LOTS or none at all&#33;
to be really sucessfull growing live plants..
and whan I say LOTS im talking LOTS LOTS LOTS&#33;
stuffed full&#33; like this..

http://www.tamura.com/yasuaki/aquarium/tank2.jpg

because of...Algae&#33; the evil enemy of planted aquariums.
to grow plants you need lots of light..algae also loves lots of light&#33; algae grows much faster than your &quot;real&quot; aquarium plants..
there is only one thing that can really keep algae in check.
lots and lots of healthy growing plants, because they will (eventually) suck all the nutrients, depriving the algae, causing very little algae to grow..
but..it can take months or years for your real plants to win the nutrient battle against algae&#33;
so you have to start out by STUFFING the tank with plants, so the real plants have a chance from the beginning..

one or three little live plants, + enough light for them = uncontrolled algae farm.

tank full of live plants + enough light for them = lots of nice growing plants and very little visable algae..

growing live plants in an aquarium is an entire other aspect of the hobby&#33; and MUCH harder than fish alone&#33;
http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Fish are so easy to care for compared to aquarium plants&#33;
not trying to discourage&#33;, because it can be done..
but one or two or 3 little live plants isnt going to work..
they need light, giving them enough light will allow algae to really take over..without a tank full of plants to combat the algae, the only way to kill the algae is cut way back on the light..which also kills the plants&#33;
its a war&#33; it took me and my planted tank 2 years to win it..
just a &quot;heads up&quot; on the fun and frustration of planted aquariums&#33;&#33; http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

also, a planted tank should have very few fish, compared to an unplanted tank..to keep nutrient levels down, and a better overall tank balance..really the emphasis for a planted tank has to be the plants alone..the fish are almost secondary..
for a FISH tank, with no live plants at all, algae isnt even an issue at all because you can just use the littlel tank light that comes with the tank&#33; the fish dont care about lots of light, you can still see them fine, but there is far too little light for algae to grow (or live plants)..

the greatest thing I ever read, to help me really understand planted tanks, was this:

to have a succesfull planted tank, you CANT think &quot;I would like to get a few real plants for my fish tank.&quot;
thats how most people start..it wont work&#33;
instead you have to think &quot;I would like to get a few fish for my plant tank&quot;&#33;
http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Scot

[Binataboy]

Here is my thoughts on the tank etc...

When cycling a tank no fish should die from ammonia poisoning. If they do you have stuffed up as you don&#39;t want an ammonia spike as ammonia will stop the bacteria that &quot;eat&quot; nitrite from growing slowing down the whole process. Add fish slowly to stop large spikes.

What filter are you running on the tank? This will ultimately dictate how many fish you can put in. Unfortunately I do not know the fish you are going to add as over here common names are completely different http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif curse common names&#33;&#33;

With the tank itself you have a shell in there&#33;&#33; Get it out this could play havoc with your water chemistry. If you need to buffer the pH use a carbonate hardness generator. The plants you have are a worry too. The Glossostigma(?) will not grow in this setup as it needs lots of food CO2 and light&#33; The red plant (Ludwigia?) has not been grown underwater (it has terrestrial leaves) and may not be an aquatic plant&#33; Avoid most red plants as these are usualy hard to grow, or not even aquatics. The crypt (wendtii?) should do well though. I would try some hardier plants at first like Microsorium, Anubias (make sure it is an aquatic species, I would recommend A. barteri), Ceratopsis cornuta and Vesicularia. Your shop should be able to help you with these names, if they can&#39;t change shop&#33;&#33;

You also have very course gravel, this is bad&#33; Food and rotting matter will get caught in the stones where nothing can get to it to eat it. Ideally the substrate should be no larger than 3mm. You can place larger rocks over this but use the finer gravel to fill all the gaps. I would probably use a sand &gt;1mm, although sand requires a few basic tips or you can get it very wrong. Personally I only use fine sand now.

This talk about glass fish getting sick easily, what species are these as I do not know of a glass tetra (glass bloodfin tetra?) do you know the Latin name? Is it a Chanda sp.(http://madhunag.tripod.com/glasstetra.html)? These get injected with dye which causes them to break out in Lymphocystis (amongst other things) which is commonly mistaken for a range of other illnesses. The dye seems to destroy their immune system. I find &quot;un-dyed&quot; Chanda sp. very hardy. As for white spot, no fish should ever get white spot unless it is in incorrect conditions or has been stressed&#33;

A few small Loricariidae (sucking catfish) like Otocinclus and 10 or so shrimp coupled with some plant growth should keep most algae at bay. But remember the best way to grow algae is to feed to much or worse still a cheap food&#33;&#33; But make sure the fish get a balanced diet with feedings of live and frozen foods (don&#39;t feed beefheart or a beefheart based frozen food)&#33;

Don&#39;t over stock, don&#39;t add fish that will grow much over 2&quot;, add a few plants that will grow in your conditions, do weekly water changes, feed a good quality food and buy your fish from a shop that knows their &#036;#/+ (read: about fish)&#33;&#33;&#33; A good shop will mean the difference between success and failure&#33;&#33;&#33; As for your lights I can&#39;t help you as I do not know any of these brands http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif but over a tank this size one full length tube should give you good plant growth. My mate grows his aldrovanda, along with other aquatic plants in a 10 gallon with a single 2 foot tube.

Hope this helps
George

[wickedthistle]

I really appreciate everyone&#39;s advice. I&#39;m having loads of fun and it&#39;s already a family activity to try and find all 13 shrimp.

I&#39;m using a GE 15w, F1578-AR-FS Aqua Ray tube that&#39;s for freshwater and saltwater aquariums plus aquarium plants and corals. The plants are Glossostigma, Lilacina (Alternanthera reineckii var. lilacina), and Cryptocoryne wendtii &quot;green&quot;. All of the plants have good roots on all of the stems and if they continue to do well, should be enough to multiply and cover the tank. Remember this is &quot;econo tank&quot; - plants are expensive so I will see if I can propagate more before purchasing.

My filter is an Aqua Clear Mini Aquarium Power Filter, 100gph for a 20gal tank (mine&#39;s a 10). Has adjustable speed. I keep it on full and plenty of bubbles seem to get mixed in. I do have small gravel in there but I guess it&#39;s not enough. I&#39;ll add a 5lb bag of it when I can get to the store. Luckily, I don&#39;t have anything in there but hungry shrimp, so there is no food buildup yet. Sanddollar will be taken out...and toys added in http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The glassfish I was talking about is the Chanda sp. I made sure to notice that the ones in the store were unpainted. However, a few did have the fungus so I will steer clear of them until I have a more established tank and/or more experience.

Over the next month I&#39;ll be slowly adding a few dwarf algae sucker of some sort -thinking o.vittatus, c.pigmaeus - depends on what the store has. A few glass catfish, and later some of the really small tetras, probably neon or such. Not too worried about algae, we&#39;ll see how all the critters do. Of course I say that because it hasn&#39;t gotten gross yet. But I can always clean the tank&#33; http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[pond boy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wickedthistle @ Oct. 06 2003,07:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I really appreciate everyone&#39;s advice. I&#39;m having loads of fun and it&#39;s already a family activity to try and find all 13 shrimp.

I&#39;m using a GE 15w, F1578-AR-FS Aqua Ray tube that&#39;s for freshwater and saltwater aquariums plus aquarium plants and corals. The plants are Glossostigma, Lilacina (Alternanthera reineckii var. lilacina), and *Cryptocoryne wendtii &quot;green&quot;. All of the plants have good roots on all of the stems and if they continue to do well, should be enough to multiply and cover the tank. Remember this is &quot;econo tank&quot; - plants are expensive so I will see if I can propagate more before purchasing.

My filter is an Aqua Clear Mini Aquarium Power Filter, 100gph for a 20gal tank (mine&#39;s a 10). Has adjustable speed. I keep it on full and plenty of bubbles seem to get mixed in. I do have small gravel in there but I guess it&#39;s not enough. I&#39;ll add a 5lb bag of it when I can get to the store. Luckily, I don&#39;t have anything in there but hungry shrimp, so there is no food buildup yet. Sanddollar will be taken out...and toys added in http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The glassfish I was talking about is the Chanda sp. I made sure to notice that the ones in the store were unpainted. However, a few did have the fungus so I will steer clear of them until I have a more established tank and/or more experience.

Over the next month I&#39;ll be slowly adding a few dwarf algae sucker of some sort -thinking o.vittatus, c.pigmaeus - depends on what the store has. A few glass catfish, and later some of the really small tetras, probably neon or such. Not too worried about algae, we&#39;ll see how all the critters do. Of course I say that because it hasn&#39;t gotten gross yet. But I can always clean the tank&#33; *http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have some extra water lilies,green myrio,and hornwort I could send you for saspe (self adressed tamped padded envelope) Pm. me if interested.

[Spectabilis73]

Your setup looks great&#33; *http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/alien.gif I would get 3 or 4 more plants, and bunch all of the plants in a corner. When you get other fish the shrimp will sometimes hide in the plant bunch for protection, fish will also swim in-between the plants http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif what are the dimensions of your tank? Looks like a 20 gallon instead of a ten... http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Anyways, here is a setup I had when i started out with fish that worked out suprisingly well, no fish died for over a year:

Tank size: Ten (10) gallons.
Gravel: Natural color, small size (3mm), epoxy coated I think.
Plants: Live, five (5) plants, one plant for every two (2) gallons of water.
Light: Some natural, and two (2) florecent bulbs (one full spectrum and *a cool white I think)
Filtration: one (1) crummy, used old bio-wheel filter , the wheel barely ran, the sponge was fine, but the thing was dripping it filtered so little water. http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Decor: some large rocks for the bottom-dwelling fish to burrow under, a wrecked ship with attached air hose, a hollow treasure chest for shy fish to hide in, some medium rocks, a small shell and one (1) medium shell (the coolie loaches loved them, at the time I didn;t know that they would degrade and pour calcium and otehr nutrients into the water, but the fish did fine with it&#33http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Now the fun part http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif :
Fish: Six (6) neon tetras, 3 mollies, 2 hatchet fish, a chinese sucker fish (that sucker was a sucker&#33; mean guy&#33http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, 3 very small bala sharks (literally hatchlings, they were no mroe than an inch long when i got them&#33http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, 2 fancy guppies, *male and female (they had alot of babies, luckily they were all eaten&#33http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, Maybe a few others. I know, very over-populated, but they did great for 2 years untill i moved them to a 30 gallon&#33; I even think the neons bred, because i saw little yellow dots that looked like eggs&#33; The **** sucker ate them though...
just my 8 1/4 pennies http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/alien.gif

EDIT: Oh yeah, and 3 ghost shrimp http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
2nd EDIT: DOH&#33; forgot my glass tetra too&#33; it never had any diseases either http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Also, he lived for 3 years, and that darn chinese sucker lived for nearly 4&#33;&#33;

[wickedthistle]

Well, my tank measurements are 24x12x12&quot; so actually I have a 15 gallon&#33; Didn&#39;t even know they made that size.

Well anyway, I&#39;ve cleaned out the tank since to get all the food that floated under the big rocks -10% water change- and added 5lb of the smaller gravel. One shrimp who refused to eat kicked the bucket so I&#39;m down to 12. I added a super cute cory trilineatus who currently either doesn&#39;t eat or doesn&#39;t eat in my presence. I&#39;ve tried flake food, algae wafers, and frozen chopped squid pieces. Food is gone in the morning, but it might be the shrimp eating it. Still, the cory is very active swimming up and down (trying to mate with its reflection?) and I&#39;ll be getting it a pal or two this weekend. http://myweb.lmu.edu/myeung/corydoras_trilineatus3.jpg

The Glossostigma is beginning to rot (shrimp mess with it) and the Lilacina (Alternanthera reineckii var. lilacina), rotted and dissolved within 4 days. The Cryptocoryne wendtii &quot;green&quot; is in perfect condition. I&#39;m not too upset though, &#39;cause I was using the plants to help cycle the tank and pondboy is nice enough to offer me some extra plants. *http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Right now I&#39;m not sticking strictly to my theme, but more towards what looks healthy at the shops and what will work best in the tank while maintaining a ghostly theme*http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I think the neon tetras will be next, or something else that will swim around mid level. Whee&#33;

[wickedthistle]

Hey all,

I want to thank everyone for their help. I got a little Otocinclus (probably affinis) and 4 neon tetras this weekend.
The cory and the oto seem to enjoy hanging out, but if that ends than I&#39;ll have to get each one a friend or two. Might get one or two more tetras if the current ones do well. Pondboy&#39;s generously sending me some plants, so I think I&#39;m all done with the tank&#33;

[Spectabilis73]

Any updates on how they are doing? http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif darn fish, eating the plants&#33; http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif oyu should try an amazon sword plant

[Carnivorousplantboy]

Hey&#33;
That setup looks really cool&#33;
I must warn you about certian fishes tendancies to eat the shrimp. I had a couple in one of my ten gallons, and I acidentialy skipped a feeding, and the shrimp were gone... Also I agree w/Spectabilis73 about the sword plant. Not only do they look good (I think) but I have had a sword plant For nearly 2 yrs... Since I started in the hobby.
Best of luck
Aaron

[wickedthistle]

Oh, y&#39;all want an update? Some of the shrimp have died, though I&#39;m pretty sure it&#39;s not the fish since the shrimp are actually larger than them&#33; They&#39;re fed a small amount twice a day, and except for the shrimp, it&#39;s easy to observe them showing evidence of eating properly http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Flakes in morning and night, and one algae tab at night.

Pondboy was nice enough to send me some plants. I was down to just the Cryptocoryne. The shrimp were chomping on everything else. Hopefully they&#39;ll do okay, I don&#39;t seem to have the magic touch for aquatic plants yet. I will buy the amazon sword if I need another plant, it looks great&#33; I just want to be really careful as I have been, no point in adding too much until I get the hang of it. Also, for some reason, aquatics are really expensive in my area&#33;

Pondboy actually sent me much more, but the stupid Post Office really, really damaged the package. And I mean large holes, leaking, etc. It came in a plastic PO bag with their disclaimer about mangling my package. Arggg&#33;

Swimmin&#39; things
4 neon tetras
1 leopard corydoras
1 Otocinclus affinis
9? ghost shrimp

Plants
1 Cryptocoryne wendtii
3 darned cool purple water lilies
2 nymphoides
2 sprigs hornwort
1 giant val

[Spectabilis73]

sounds good. do you notice any round balls inside of any of the shrimp? if ya do, those are eggs&#33; http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[pond boy]

Lol.aquatics are expensive anywhere you go.so sorry the darn post office messed up the plants I sent ya:(

[wickedthistle]

Yeah, I&#39;ve seen quite a few shrimp with eggs. Odd thing is, the same amount of pregnant shrimp also happen to be the same number of missing shrimp. http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Anyway, I see little critters swimming around in there, either baby shrimp, and/or something else. I&#39;ve had Sea Monkeys and regular brine shrimp, so there are some that swim like that. But there&#39;s some kind of critter that swims very fast and in weird and quick-changing directions. Almost like it&#39;s jumping around.

LOL, my mom asked how big those shrimp got when I told her I saw lots of eggs. Then she asked me if they were edible&#33;

Hey pondboy, not your fault. Those post office folks only seem to mess up on plant packages&#33; Geez, you&#39;d think they would have a bit more respect when re-packaging.

[Spectabilis73]

Quote[/b] (wickedthistle @ Oct. 30 2003,12:02)]Yeah, I&#39;ve seen quite a few shrimp with eggs. Odd thing is, the same amount of pregnant shrimp also happen to be the same number of missing shrimp. * Anyway, I see little critters swimming around in there, either baby shrimp, and/or something else. I&#39;ve had Sea Monkeys and regular brine shrimp, so there are some that swim like that. But there&#39;s some kind of critter that swims very fast and in weird and quick-changing directions. Almost like it&#39;s jumping around.

LOL, my mom asked how big those shrimp got when I told her I saw lots of eggs. Then she asked me if they were edible&#33;

Hey pondboy, not your fault. Those post office folks only seem to mess up on plant packages&#33; Geez, you&#39;d think they would have a bit more respect when re-packaging.

Congrats&#33; http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif those little jumpy things are shrimp fry. I&#39;m 100% sure http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Sad thing is though, when the female lays eggs, she dies, i think http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif At least you got tons of babies http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
-Spec

[wickedthistle]

It&#39;s sad that they die, but I feel better about it now. I had been wondering if I was doing something wrong, it&#39;s awfully strange to see healthy fat pregnant shrimp swimming around at night and then find shrimp pieces everywhere the next morning.

[goldtrap2690]

any update pics wickedthistle , and if you don&#39;t already have enough plant then you should try to get some cambomba and a betta would hurt to add in i believe .:;):

[wickedthistle]

Okay, here&#39;s an after picture. I switched the lights, but the new one is actually brighter. I just took the pic at a bad angle.

You can see how the the two plants near the front are doing much worse, but the other one in the back right is thriving. The rest are new plants. There&#39;s actually the same amount of large rocks as before (all I added was 5lb of black gravel) but they&#39;re spread about more. And of course, the fish saw the camera and went into hiding. the white thing in the middle is a piece of PVC pipe for hiding in and where I put the algae tablets so they dont&#39; make as much of a mess.

It&#39;s a bit scummy, I haven&#39;t cleaned it since I got it. I&#39;ll probably to a quick scrub and 25% change this weekend.


http://myweb.lmu.edu/myeung/tank2.jpg

[Spectabilis73]

how many neon tetras do you have? i see only one http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/ghostface.gif you should get at least 6 http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The tank looks great, its a bit bare though, you should get some top dwelling fish. I would start with 3 hatchets http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[pond boy]

Umm....Wicked wheres the plants I sent ya in that pic?

[wickedthistle]

Ah, sorry. Here&#39;s a better pic. I cleaned out the tank and re-potted all of the plants. I took out some of the bigger gravel, I need to get another 5lb of the regular stuff, but as usual, the store has sold out everything but the rainbow color. Yuck.

There&#39;s 4 neon tetras, but at least this time you can see 2&#33; Hatchets are a good idea, but I&#39;m unfortunetly restricted to what the store has in stock. They didn&#39;t have any, but said to check back in a few weeks. Oh, and I&#39;d prefer not to have fish that prefer live or frozen food - it gives me the willies http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/ghostface.gif

Giant val in bottom left, the nymphoides in the front left and front right. The lily&#39;s in the center. The piece of hornwort that survived is floating up top and you can&#39;t see it. Green myrio was too rotted when it arrived (as I mentioned, the PO played havoc with the package).

You can see in the pic a string connected to a piece of zucchini with a rock weighing it down. I&#39;m fishing for those annoying snails that keep propagating. I guess they don&#39;t like zucchini, haven&#39;t caught any lately but the algae suckers like to sit on it.

http://myweb.lmu.edu/myeung/tank3.jpg