Snake traps

[Ozzy]

I was at work Thursday, and beside the building I saw a snake that I have never seen before. Overall it looked like a garder snake. It was about 2 ft long, and a little bigger around than a quarter. It was black with gold stripes down each side. It's belly was metallic gold. What made this snake strange was that it had tiny white specks int the middle of it's body abouve the stripes.
Of course I tried to catch it, but it slipped away. The next day I saw the same snake in the same place. I cornered it between the building and a chain link fence. I was so close that I even touched it. I tried to get it to come from under the fence. It poked it's head out and then it struck at me twice, but it didn't open it's mouth. Again it found a way to slip away.
I really want to catch this snake so I can get some pics of it. Does anybody have any idea what kind of snake it is? Does anybody know of any traps that I can set to catch it?

[Nflytrap]

Praps a piece of PVC with one end closed? Leave it in a good spot and see if the snake adopts it(totally theoretical)

[Bugweed]

Well, Ozzy. It looks like you have to post a pic so we can all argue about it. No poisonous species fits that description, so jump on it next time so we can all see it. No elliptical pupil, no facial pits---Jump that sucker!!!! Can't wait to see it.

[Ozzy]

Bugweed, I tried to grab it but there is a six foot chain link fence that he goes in as soon as he sees me. By the time I jump the fence he's under the building.

[rattler]

i would guess its a garter but not sure.

Rattler

[Bugweed]

Dang it, Ozzy!!!! Do your best Hulk!! Simply walk through the fence, and if he dives under the building, pick it up and grab'em!!!!!!

[Bugweed]

Kinda tough without a picture, and/or an accurate scale count for keying it out, isn't it rattler?

[rattler]

scale count? dont really need that for figuring out where he lives http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_n_32.gif cant be but a hand full of snakes in Ohio. my problem up here is we have 3 species of garters. one, red-sided, has 2 populations. north of the Missouri River and south of it. the ones on the north side have severly reduced or are totally lacking any "red sides" the ones on the south side have the normal red sides. every thing else is easy to figure out. toads on the otherhand...........4 species/subspecies and i cant tell most apart.........never been much of an amphib guy.

Rattler

[Ozzy]

Actually Ohio has quite a few snakes, including 3 Garter snakes. Here's a list of all the snake known to be in Ohio.

SNAKES

Brown snake, midland
Brown snake, northern
Copperhead, northern
Fox snake, eastern
Garter snake, Butler's
Garter snake, eastern
Garter snake, eastern plains
Green snake, eastern smooth
Green snake, rough
Green snake, western smooth
Hog-nosed snake, eastern
Kingsnake, black
Kirtland's snake
Massasauga, eastern
Milk snake, eastern
Queen snake
Racer, black
Racer, blue
Racer, yellow-bellied
Rat snake, black
Rattlesnake, timber
Red-bellied snake, northern
Ribbon snake, eastern
Ring necked snake, northern
Smooth earth snake, eastern
Water snake, copperbelly
Water snake, Lake Erie
Water snake, northern
Worm snake, eastern
Worm snake, midwest

I think that it's an Eastern Garter snake, but what puzzles me is the white specks and I don't remember seeing the stripe down the middle of it's back.
I set a trap today, if it works I'll post the pics.

[Bugweed]

Rattler, i am suprised at you! You should know that scale counts will always give you exactly what it is you need to know. What if it was an escapee from someones terrarium? To know for sure, scale counts and keying. Sometimes, where western plains, and eastern plains intergrade, you can get confused. Almost like a hybrid swarm in a bog. SOOO many color variations and things. Knowing how to do scale counts, never hurts.

[rattler]

lol me memorize scale counts? suuuuuuuuuuuuuureeeeee. i kept/keep pythons and local species can be narrowed down quite fast. i suppose i should look up scale counts for carpet pythons and figure out what mine is but my money is on it being a hybrid anyways, beautiful snake though. lil jumpy, but has never attempted to bite. Ozzy. im surprised. didnt realize there was that much of a variety in Ohio. cool. much better than here. even with that list it should be easy to narrow down with a pic.

Rattler

[Ozzy]

On the website I got the the list from it has pics of each snake. None has the white specks.
The amount of snakes here surprised me too. I've been here 3 years and this is the first year I've seen any snakes at all. I'm determined to catch this snake. I'll get him.

[Ozzy]

I found a pic that has the same type of spots on it that the snake I saw did. This is not the snake I saw. I only want you to look at the white spots it has.
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/projects/herpcons/herps_of_NC/snakes/thasir2.jpg

[The Griffin]

You live in Ohio?
I was going to guess a Queen snake as it fits that description from what I remember. I can't do a search at work(will get in trouble), but when I get home, I will look.

Joe

[rattler]

ive seen western hognosed with a similar pattern. have no clue if the easters would have a pattern like that.

Rattler

[Ozzy]

There are eastern hognose south of here but that was not what I saw. I got a close look at his head, and his pattern was not like a hognose.
I thought about a queen snake but from what I know about them they stay in or very near water. There is a river about a half mile away. I'm going to make another trap this weekend with a live mouse inside. I'll see what happens.

[rattler]

like i said i saw the pattern on a western......never seen an eastern in person. hope you catch it. BTW just because they are supposed to be near water doesnt mean much. i found a frog in the middle of the badlands over a mile from the nearest puddle. never did figure out why he was there but he seemed happy enough.

Rattler

[Steve L]

Hey Oz,

My guess would be the Butler's Garter, they often have that very yellow/gold belly. The spotting sounds right as well.

Steve

[Ozzy]

I would be real excited if it is a butlers. I have never seen one alive. I did consider that it may be a butlers, but it's lack of a dorsal stripe and the fact that it was jet black made me think that it wasn't. As far as I know butlers are more of a gold or tan color. I'm no snake expert and these are just my uneducated opinions.

[Bugweed]

Oh Great and Powerful OZ! Coloration in snakes is relative. They have in some instances cases of pattern dimorphism, and will not look as usual. That is why I mentioned scale counts to begin with. That is the way to narrow down the field to a "T" with a positive ID. I guess some folks don't understand that, but that is the way. Your snake should be able to be keyed out to a positive ID.

[rattler]

i fully understand the importance of scale counts but where i live, short of possible hybrids between the 3 or 4 species of gatrers coloration/shape alone can tell you what snake you have found. we dont have that many different types.

Rattler

[Bugweed]

Between Bullsnakes,an occasional pale milksnake, and plains garters, it would be useless. But in Ozzy's case, if he has an intergrade or a visitor from where ever, keying it down would help. Be glad you are not in Arizona at the four corners, sand snakes, leaf nosed, patch noses, and a host of others, so similar in coloration, and yet distinct species, keying was your only hope!! 3 species of sand snakes (shovel nosed), 2 species of leaf nosed, and 2 species of patch nosed. Sometimes their patterns didn't help much.

[rattler]

what do you mean be glad im dont have that problem?!?!?! i would love to have enough different types of snakes around here to have that problem. dont get me wrong i love my 6 ft bullsnakes. cute lil green snakes and garters, agressive yellowbellied racers ect ect ect but a few more species would be nice.

Rattler

[The Griffin]

Bugweed,

Being married with two kids makes it hard to do, but I have always wanted to go to Cherry County, NE and look for pale milks...It's about a seven hour drive from here, I think.


Cheers,

Joe