User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 8 of 14

Thread: Semi-meaningless Beauty

  1. #1
    Moderator Joseph Clemens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    2,539
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Semi-meaningless Beauty

    Curious how my aesthetics for Pinguicula have changed over the years. I was just using BobZ's CP Photofinder to view lots of very beautiful photos of other people's Pinguicula plants. It was quite inspiring.

    But by doing so I was reminded of my frustration with the unfamiliarity that exists among many otherwise excellent growers, unfamiliarity with plant nomenclature, that is. Many of these beautiful plants, especially hybrids, were sometimes listed with aberrant hybrid formula (lists of three or more possible parents, simply separated by x's - no way to know how they are actually related), and/or parent names that are just not recognizable, so I can't tell which species or hybrids the parents actually are, or how the crossings were accomplished.

    Okay, some of these plants are so attractive, I can still enjoy their beauty. But the grower in me, wants to know how they were created, so I might attempt the same hybrid, myself. And, I might want to grow some of these same clones, myself -- but how can I find them if I can't use correct nomenclature to identify them, when I search for them?
    Joseph Clemens
    Tucson, Arizona, U S A

  2. #2
    jeff 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    LE MANS - FRANCE
    Posts
    585
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    suite

    if the parents' names are simply separated by an x , theoretically by the code of nomenclature mother is always the first and second father.

    now often the main character traits of the hybrid are those of the mother

    For example:
    a P. 'Sethos' : P. ehlersiae x moranensis; P. ehlersiae is the mother and the father P. moranensis
    a P. 'Weser' : P. moranensis x ehlersiae; P. moranensis is the mother and the father P. ehlersiae

    is clearly visible with the traits of characters

    jeff
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 01-21-2011 at 02:17 AM. Reason: Nomenclature adjustment - ehlersiae, not ehlersae

  3. #3
    Moderator Joseph Clemens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    2,539
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    But, how do you know for certain which parents are which and in which combinations when you see > P. esseriana x gracilis x moranensis, or P. laueana x gypsicola x esseriana x gracilis. No brackets, no parentheses, no ordered pairs, whatsoever. Just a list of three or more species, cultivars, or locally named plants, each separated by nothing more than x's. If species names are used, you're lucky if they're spelled well enough to recognize them. Of course, if it were just two parents, as long as the names were spelled well enough to be recognized, it would normally be seed parent, first. Modern ICBN allows any order as long as and symbols are used to indicate which parent are which, but parentheses, brackets, and braces are necessary to indicate which are which.

    In the first example it could be, P. esseriana x (gracilis x moranensis), or P. (esseriana x gracilis) x moranensis. And in the second example it could be, P. (laueana x gypsicola) x (esseriana x gracilis), or P. [laueana x (gypsicola x esseriana)] x gracilis, or several other possibilities.

    Try guessing what kind of hybrid this is: P. "small blue flower" x "long pink leaves".

    What I know for certain, with several I recently viewed, is that they are very attractive plants of indeterminate parentage.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 01-21-2011 at 02:27 AM.
    Joseph Clemens
    Tucson, Arizona, U S A

  4. #4
    Oh, the humanity!! TheFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    779
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Knowing nothing about proper nomenclature in biology, I must say that I have been guilty of some of the improprieties you're describing. But even having been in this hobby for less than a year, I'm beginning to see the importance of all this. What gives this the most gravity to me is that so many CPs at this point are more common in cultivation than they are in the wild, and some don't exist in the wild at all.

    I'm going to go ahead and update my grow list to include hybrid formulas on all of my hybrid species. Just cuz.

  5. #5
    instigator thez_yo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    San Diego, USA
    Posts
    5,025
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The problem that I have with a couple plants is that everyone seems to spell them differently which shouldn't be the case... I've seen N. x Trusmardiensis and N. x Trusmadiensis. It's even worse with some of the plants that end in "i" because sometimes people include only one or two "i's at the end, which makes it hard to get it right... like is it N. kerrii with two "i"s?

  6. #6
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    18,768
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is as bad as people with hyphenated names marrying others with hyphenated names. After 8 generations, you have 256 last names!

  7. #7
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Southern Tongass Rainforest, Alaska
    Posts
    3,708
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I understand your frustration and I do believe it is important to have all your plants properly labeled so you can know their ancestry. But, with that being said, what's most important is the plant itself. If the plant has desirable characteristics, that's what matters. It's just important that people call things as such. If you have an unknown Pinguicula than call it P. "mutt".

    The term mutt exists for a reason and in my opinion, especially regarding Pinguicula, after so many plants have crossed with one another, mutt status is achieved pretty quickly.

    But like I said, I do agree with you that we should all do our best to know what our plants are.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

  8. #8
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    18,768
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Does anyone have any Nepenthes (edwardsiana x bicalcarata) x (edwardsiana x hamata)? Willing to trade for a Drosera capensis?!
    Love your signature!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Mah kitteh is semi famous
    By larry in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-12-2010, 10:14 PM
  2. Looking for two semi-common things
    By phissionkorps in forum Carnivorous Plant Trading Post
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-27-2008, 04:45 PM
  3. is this meaningless?
    By losfreddy in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-09-2007, 09:47 AM
  4. Semi-natural feeding
    By Joseph Clemens in forum Butterwort (Pinguicula)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-01-2005, 01:20 PM
  5. Semi-hydroponic
    By Tropics in forum Tropical Pitcher Plants  (Nepenthes)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-20-2005, 06:55 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •