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  • #42
When using all mineral media, its important that they sit in water, I think Joseph talks about that on his site.. They'll go dormant on you really quick if you dont keep the water level high enough(i've learned that the hard way lol).

I see this as an issue with mixes such as 1/1/1 turface/coarsesand/lavarock. And I believe I see this in a few of the pots that I recently switched to a mix that has Very Coarse sand (mesh 10 or so) in it. But I think that if perlite would be added to the mix water would rise up due to capillary action through perlite and turface and the pots could be allowed to dry for couple of days as suggested at www.pinguicula.org.
In addition I'm hoping to try what was suggested here by Joseph: http://icps.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pinguicula&action=print&thread=4462

"Presently I place a few pieces of LFS on the bottom of the pots (to help retain media), then I pack the pots with moist, iron oxide coated, perlite, to within 1/4" of the pot rims. Then I dust the perlite surface with RootShield® and a little dried insect powder. Then I cover the perlite surface with a layer of APS or "kitty litter", then spritz the topping with a 40ppm solution of peters 20-20-20 soluble fertilizer with trace elements. I then make a planting hole and insert the plant in its new home."

I don't think I mentioned it here but I do add iron oxide to all inorganic mixes to fight off chlorosis.


Basically, my recent switch to very coarse sand and absence of perlite could be an issue in some of these pots. Previously everything was grown in mesh#16 sand. Lava rock also does not help matters as it retains little water. So increasing the ratio of microporous minerals could be an answer to quickly drying media :)


Edit- Here is what I just noticed:

This is pure Turface Pro League which is made up of smaller particles than the one in MVP or in Pondcare Aquatic Planting Soil
DSC05861.jpg

DSC05863.jpg


Notice that the surface does not get wet completely. Turface is not good at capillary action.
Below is a little experiment that I just did with ink for better visibility. I am sure I am not discovering America here ofcourse, but it gives me a better idea on what mixes to make in the future:

Turface MVP on the left perlite on the right
DSC05865.jpg


Ink moves in into perlite via capilary action and turface is just getting wet on the bottom (same thing happens when I use water)
DSC05868.jpg


One more drop of ink added in the middle:
DSC05870.jpg
 
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  • #43
suite

Bonjour

for me you have 2 problem

the capillarity and no alcalin notion in your substrat.

for a better capillarity use river sand (little granulimetry)with your substrat ( see in aquariophily shop)

the lime is not a good alcalin substrat (often mixed with a lot of chimical product ) use a alcalin substrat more natural , may be you can try ;coral crushed in addition with your actual substrat.

jeff
 
  • #44
Jeff,

Aragonite is essentially the same as crushed coral correct?

I was hoping to avoid using fine sand and use perlite as substitution to increase capilarity because fine sand would compact over time.

My next test would incorporate aragonite/crushed coral and setting up couple of pots without it to test the affect on the plants.
Is this the current ratio that you are using:
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1042625&postcount=19

Thank you
 
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  • #45
I think I might repot all my Mexican pings with a combination of APS / crushed coral/ egg shells.
 
  • #46
How is crushed coral at retaining water? I have never seen it up close, will it work similar to perlite?
 
  • #47
How is crushed coral at retaining water? I have never seen it up close, will it work similar to perlite?

Depends on how fine crushed. Coral sand is our beach sand in Hawaii and behaves like any other sand in regards to particle size and water movement. However chunks of coral actually has internal pores and is more apparent depending on the type of coral.
 
  • #48
kula, what do you grow your pinguicula in?
 
  • #49
crushed coral ( without salt) or crushed egg shells are 2 alcalin notion , crushed aragonite or calcite also.
test with the PH your substrate , if you have a PH:7-8 is good for them , 5-4 no .

in my mix ( link) it is the same thing like calcareous sand.

for the capillarity , the fine sand make the link with the big piece , if you have just big piece the capillarity often do not work .


have you try to find in USA a attapulgite-sepiolite productor or importer ?

jeff
 
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  • #50
for the capillarity , the fine sand make the link with the big piece , if you have just big piece the capillarity often do not work .
I hope to achieve the same results with perlite through its porosity. Unfortunately in my experience fine sand washes out from the top layers of soil towards the bottom leaving empty cavities and compacts soil below.

have you try to find in USA a attapulgite-sepiolite productor or importer ?
jeff

Unfortunately this is the first time I hear about this type of soil. It seems though it is not a commonly used component, at-least around here? I'm also reading rather conflicting reviews about it on cpuk.

Also pH 7 is neutral pH. pH 8 - is just MILDLY basic. So what is more important alkalinity? or is it actually Calcium cations uptake?
 
  • #51
From Coastal Carnivores:


Soil and Containers

Mexican and Carribean pings grow on sandy cliffs, and prefer a loose soil low in peat moss (a mix of 1 part sand, perlite, and peat moss is good). Some growers add dolomite to keep the pH up, although I have not found this necessary. Containers do not need to be large, since the root system is not extensive.

The rest of the pings require a more traditional mix of 1:1 peat moss and horticultaral sand. in standard 4 inch pots.

---------- Post added at 10:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

From ICPS:

There is some controversy over the best way to grow Mexican Pinguicula. Techniques that some growers swear by are death in other hands. Mexican Pinguicula are NOT bog plants and should not be grown like bog plants. Plants in the standard peat and sand "CP mix" may or may not do well depending on your exact conditions and which species or hybrid you have.

Most Mexican Pinguicula prefer an alkaline soil mix. I find a good mix for house plant Pings to be one part each of peat, coarse sand, and perlite. Dolomitic or limestone sand would be best if you can get it. This would counteract the acidity of the peat. I use silica sand blasting sand in the mix because that is what I can get. I then add dolomitic lime (a soil amendment found in garden shops) to the mix. I put in about 1 TBS of dolomitic lime to 1 or 2 cups of soil mix. That may seem like a lot but the plants do much better with it there.

There are other options on soil mixes that do work as well. You can use pumice in place of the perlite. Some growers may use vermiculite but it breaks down quickly getting slimy and requiring you to repot often. You can throw in some fine orchid bark but it will degrade in a year or two. Ground bark might actually be better and a good substitute for peat since it would be less acidic.

The main issue with soil mixes is matching the weight or water holding ability of the soil to the temperature and humidity where the plants are growing. Plants grown in humid greenhouses with misty or overhead watering need to be in a more loose soil mix. Plants grown in a typical house or classroom need a heaver, water absorbent mix. I never top water my plants and the pots are always sitting in a few cm of water. That is the reason I recommend a heaver mix than many growers at World of Pinguicula.

After planting the plants I then put a layer of silica sand on the surface of the soil up to 5 mm thick to discourage fungus gnats. Fungus gnat larvae like to eat Pinguicula leaves. I plant all my Pinguicula in 9 cm tall plastic pots and grow them using the classic tray method. When the plants have carnivorous leaves I use a water depth of up to 4 cm in the trays. When the plants are in the succulent phase I keep the water level lower but never dry. I have been growing a number of species and hybrids this way next to a window in my house for five years without repotting. Many of the hybrids bloom constantly. After about five years they need repotting because the deep thatch of old leaves get in the way of the new roots reaching the soil from the growing plants.
 
  • #52
from pinguicula.org
Media : I use a 100 % mineral media : 2 perlite, 2 vermiculite, 1 small sand (for aquarium), 1 fine white sand, 1 pouzzolane (volcanic lava), 1 aqualit (expansed ceramic for aquarium). The aqualit can be replaced by 1 of pouzzolane. Plants in this media grow slower but have a stronger root system.

and of course one of the recipes from Joseph Clemens:
Media: 1 part Schultz aquatic plant soil (sintered fullers earth) and 1 part 20 or 30 grit silica sand --- pre-moisten the sand (not wet, just damp) and blend a very small amount of iron oxide powder into the sand before mixing all ingredients together, I mix thoroughly while lightly spraying with a 40ppm solution of 20-20-20 soluble fertilizer with trace elements (which is absorbed by the aquatic plant soil and fortifies it); Trays: shoe box size polyethylene plastic trays, I spray paint the rim white with spray paint formulated for plastic; Amendments: dried, powdered, insects with a small amount of Trichoderma harzianum inoculum mixed in.

Basically the tendency is to use inorganic soil, but what soil.. there is no consensus
 
  • #53
suite

GILL_ZA

you watering by the top , or by capillarity from the bottom of the pot ?

in the genus pinguicula (all) you have 3 substrate

- acid
- calcareous and alcalin ( sometimes gypsum)
- indifferentiated

a lot of mexican grow in alcalin or gypsum substrate. PH :8-9 sometimes 7.
a lot of temperate in calcareous PH : 7-9 or acid substrate 5-6

for the others : subtropical US, andin ,caraibe see my web site

species by species for several ping you can see here 'in situ'lien for me it is the better answer .

yes there are no consensus , but in my opinion always be closer to the 'in situ' , after in each Country is hard to find the same materials

jeff

my grow list :lien
my web site :lien
 
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  • #54
Jeff

I do both, sometimes just add the water in the tray, sometimes topwater the pots. Do both basically.

Got some aragonite sand from Petco. It is made up of some fine and coarse particles. Will experiment with it later. But I'm happy to see that the mix in which I have added perlite again and after drying thoroughly (no plant in it) put in the tray with water, became wet and even the top got moist.
 
  • #55
Suite

Bonjour

for me by capillarity from the bottom of the pot is the better method , no risk to have some element migrated .

sometimes perlite over time dissolves in water, so I do not use it

jeff

my grow list :lien
my web site :lien
 
  • #56
kula, what do you grow your pinguicula in?

mostly turface. some sand black lava rock and a little peat... Have never tried the coral sand. Might give it a go one day...
 
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