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Thread: Cold hardy Pinguicula: winter buds and gemmae pics

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    jesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ57 View Post
    I think I will leave them alone this year and check for gemmae earlier next year. I think taking some of the moss away from the base might make it easier to see what is happening
    For me, the best time to look after gemmae at the bottom of the buds, seperate them from the hibernacula and plant them individually is from mid of February until end of March. It's the weeks when the buds are opening/unfolding and the daily temperatures are in the range of +4...+10C (40...50F).

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ57 View Post
    and, who knows, maybe some may pop up in the moss close the the plants that I cannot see right now.
    Do you mean maybe seeds germinating on the moss?
    If no seeds are present, only gemmae may sprout.
    If gemmae are buried in the soil near the hibernaculum of the mother plant, the gemmae will be overgrown by its mother plant during summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ57 View Post
    I really hate to chance losing the plants by digging them up right now.

    For me its the only time of the year for digging out and in hibernacula and gemmae of winter hardy Pinguicula.

    This is because of the roots. The roots of cold-temperate Pinguicula are undergoing also a seasonal cycle of growing and dying as the summer leaves do. The difference is: The summer leaves are growing in spring and summer and dying in fall. The roots are growing in spring and summer, staying in fall and dying in winter. This time of the year the hibernacula of cold-temperate Pings have "dead roots" and new roots are just starting to grow. This is the best time of the year of dig them out and in.

    Here is a picture showing roots of P. macroceras ssp. nortensis as of today, mostly dead roots:



    The hibernaculum has a single short and living root, thats where the red arrow points. This root has grown already this season, it is just a few millimetres long. All the other roots you can see on the picture died during last winter. All these roots are hanging dead on the hibernaculum. Shortly they will degrade completely and many new roots grow through the old dead root mush.
    Last edited by jesse; 03-12-2012 at 06:04 AM.

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    I am a CPaholic... DJ57's Avatar
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    Jesse: "Do you mean maybe seeds germinating on the moss?
    If no seeds are present, only gemmae may sprout.
    If gemmae are buried in the soil near the hibernaculum of the mother plant, the gemmae will be overgrown by its mother plant during summer
    ."

    I meant the gemmae as I cannot see very well if any, if they are there, may have broken off. I can't look real close except to take a picture and blow it up because of where they are situated in the bog (very large bog). But I understand what you are saying about the moss and/or mother plant over growing them. I am moving some sarrs around in the bog soon and will wait until next year to dig up the pings and check for gemmae in winter/spring so I will have a better idea of where to put any gemmae so they get the proper sun/shade mix.

    I really appreciate this information you have given as I really don't know a whole lot about pings in general as sarrs have been my main focus in the past and this will be very helpful for the future of what I do with them.

  3. #11
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    Huh that is very interesting. I have never observed P. vulgaris doing this... I wonder if it is capable of it.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

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    jesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ57 View Post
    I meant the gemmae as I cannot see very well if any, if they are there, may have broken off. I can't look real close except to take a picture and blow it up because of where they are situated in the bog (very large bog).
    I understand. Even my 90-litre mini-bogs are about 100 kg (= 220 pounds), that is far too heavy for me to carry them around. I usually do the working with Pinguicula gemmae on my kitchen table like that:

    I go out and cut out a small patch of soil (less than 2"x2") around the winter hibernacle with my pocket knife and take it into the house where it is warm and I have good lighting conditions, that's on my kitchen table. I can use a magnifying glass if needed. Then I carefully take growing moss away from the bottom of the hibernacle. If there are no gemmae present, the soil patch can go back to the mini-bog immediately and I put it back, perhaps with some fresh substrate added around the hibernacle instead of the moss.

    If gemmae is present, I remove it from the hibernacle by scrubbing it off carefully with my pocket knife. Then the naked hibernacle can go back to the mini-bog immediately. The gemmae can be planted (or sown if very small) in a pot at first and cultivated potted standing in a tray for some weeks. Potted cultivation of gemmae allows better care initially, as I can easily put the pots in a frost-free shed if heavy frost comes back for some days, and I can protect them against heavy rainfall so they stay in the pots where I have put them (at first they have absolutely no roots, so rain tosses them around). Some weeks later after the gemmae started developing, I then can put them from potted cultivation into the bog in their final position for the next 12 months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexenthes View Post
    Huh that is very interesting. I have never observed P. vulgaris doing this... I wonder if it is capable of it.
    Yes, sure! Nearly every cold-temperate Pinguicula can develop gemmae when kept under good cultivation conditions, fitting for the species.

    I am not very experienced with P. vulgaris, but in late January this year I purchased a naked hibernacle of P. vulgaris with its gemmae on it. I removed the gemmae and planted the mother plant and its gemmae into a 3" pot. This is P. vulgaris and its gemmae planted around:



    I don't know if I identify every gemmae on the picture, but it looks like 9 gemmae, planted around the mother plant hibernacle.

    The amount of gemmae produced varies by species, cultivation and weather conditions. I think that P. vulgaris is not the species which produces most gemmae. And I believe that P. vulgaris is not the easisiest species in cultivation. P. grandiflora seems to be much easier in cultivation and P. grandiflora produces more gemmae than P. vulgaris. But it may depend on climate and many other circumstances, where in the world which species does better than another. And in many parts of the world, such like Southern US, climate may be generally too warm for cold-temperate Pinguicula to thrive.

    So if somebody wants to decide, whether his Pinguicula species can have gemmae, just take from this Pinguicula classification:
    - cold-temperate and winter hardy from the Northern hemisphere = gemmae forming* with hibernacle
    - warm-temperate from Southern USA = no gemmae
    - Mexican = no gemmae
    - Southern hemisphere = no gemmae

    *= If you use that Pinguicula classification, then you can predict:
    ALL of the cold-temperate and winter hardy Pinguicula from the Northern hemisphere develop gemmae in fall and winter, with one single exception: P. alpina.

    Pinguicula alpina is the only cold-temperate Pinguicula from the Northern hemisphere with absolutely no gemmae AND the roots of P. alpina stays alive all year round. So DO NOT dig out P. alpina, they have no gemmae (for sure!) and they do not like root disturbance as their roots are NOT dying during winter as with all the other cold-temperate and hibernacle-forming Pinguicula from the Northern hemisphere.
    Last edited by jesse; 03-13-2012 at 07:51 AM.

  5. #13
    I am a CPaholic... DJ57's Avatar
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    Jesse:

    Again, very good reference, thank you! With the roots dying back naturally in winter, I don't have to worry about disturbing the root system like I did before. I will watch for gemmae next year and follow your suggestions.

    What exactly are your bog conditions throughout the year for your cold-hardy pings? Light, temps throughout the year, moisture level, etc. Since mine do not seem to be producing gemmae now, perhaps I need to tweek my bog conditions for them thoughout this growing season if possible. My bog is large, approximately 64 square feet with lots of sarrs plus other, so plenty of room to experiment with what I can control. There is a picture of my bog in the TF forum gallery, link in my signature line below.

  6. #14
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    Interesting, I did not know these produce gemmae. It doesn't seem like many people have these in cultivation. Even an old dog learns something new now and then.

    I just took my P. macroceras out of the refrigerator. Only one of the 3 surviving seedlings made an obvious winter bud. The rest disappeared.

    P. macroceras, Hiouchi, Calif.



    You kind of expect it to say "Feed me!"
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

  7. #15
    I am a CPaholic... DJ57's Avatar
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    From seed, wow. Very nice. Did you get seed from your own plants?

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    I keep hoping to see cold-temperate ping gemmae on ebay but never do. I wonder why? I know they are not grown commonly in the states but they do seem to be more commonly grown in Europe. Don't the gemmae travel well?

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