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Hi,
as I have looked through the Pinguicula forum I found, that there are hardly any pictures to find that show cold hardy Pinguicula and their gemmae buds in spring.

Cold hardy Pinguicula can propagate from their winter buds as they produce small gemmae during autumn/winter, that can grow to individual plants the next season.

With some species, the gemmae is buried in the soil, with some species the gemmae is developed above the soil, and in many cases it depends on climate, weather, soil and cultivation conditions whether the gemmae is above or below the soil.

So here are some of my plants as of today that show gemmae buds above the soil:

Pinguicula macrocereas ssp. nortensis:
Pinguicula_macroceras_gemmae1.jpg

Pinguicula_macroceras_gemmae2.jpg


Pinguicula grandiflora:
Pinguicula_grandiflora_gemmae1.jpg


If the gemmae are growing above ground, heavy rain can cut them loose and toss them a bit around so they find a new place to grow. But most of the gemmae will be overgrown by the mother plant and die, when the big hibernaculum starts to develop its summer leaves.

For best propagation results, you can dig the hibernacula out of their soil, remove the gemmae, then replant hibernaculum and gemmae seperately. If your plants set a lot of gemmae (as those you can see on the pictures above), you can multiply your stock of plants with high propagation rates each year.

Weather here is fine currently, so now I'm going out and dig out some hibernacula and gemmae and replant them.

The advantage of gemmae propagation against propagation by seed is:
1. Small gemmae can grow to flowering size buds within just one season. Propagation by seeds takes much longer until you have plants flowering.
2. Child plants are always the same as their mother plants when propagated from gemmae, no hybrids can occur as it is possible when propagated from seeds and you are cultivating different species in the same garden at the same time.

Good luck with your cold hardy Pinguicula - whoever is keeping some!
 
:-D Thank you for your post as I did not know this. I have both these growing in my bog outside and going out shortly to check for gemmae on those.
 
:-D Thank you for your post as I did not know this. I have both these growing in my bog outside and going out shortly to check for gemmae on those.

Oh, somebody posting from Oregon, where P. macroceras ssp. nortensis has its natural habitat!

If this thread helped someone in harvesting gemmae from the hibernacula and propagating some cold temperate Pinguicula by using the gemmae before they are overgrown by their mother plant, it was worth starting the topic.

Did you find gemmae when checking your hibernacula?

For harvesting the gemmae I dig out the hibernaculum and carefully scrub off the gemmae with the edge of a pocket knife. If there are a lot of roots attached to the hibernaculum, you need not care too much about it: The roots of most cold temperate Pinguicula (including P. macroceras and P. grandiflora) die during winter completely, so the big roots at this time of the year attached to the hibernacula are dead roots. But be carefully, as soon as the winter buds start unfolding, new roots are growing. This afternoon in my climate I found several buds to have already a few new grown roots, just some millimetres long (and not very many of them). In contrast to the long, dead, old roots the new grown roots should be taken good care of, so that they don't break.

Perhaps I can take another picture the next days and show long, old, dead roots from last season and short, new grown roots from this season on a hibernaculum at the same time.
 
Okay, took some pics. I don't see any gemmae, but maybe under the soil or not forming any? What do you think?
The P. grandiflora shrinks quite a bit every winter, but grows quite large in summer. The P. macroceras I just got last year. The mystery one popped up in the old bog I had Primuliflora, grandiflora, and another kind I do not remember the name of after they all perished from being too wet, and this one popped up unexpected one day last summer and I moved it to the new bog. In the new bog, they are mounded with better-draining soil under them.

This one I am not sure which kind it is, probably have to wait until it flowers
IMG_9945x1.jpg
[/IMG]

This is the P. grandiflora
IMG_9944x1.jpg
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IMG_9942x1.jpg
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This is the P. macroceras that looks like it has plantlets forming at the side
IMG_9941x1.jpg
[/IMG]
 
Okay, took some pics. I don't see any gemmae, but maybe under the soil or not forming any? What do you think?

Maybe.
You never know what sits at the base of a bud until you checked the base of a bud down to the point where the roots are connected. The gemmae may develop below the surface and sit there - undetected until overgrown by the mother plant and dead.

This one I am not sure which kind it is, probably have to wait until it flowers

If the only decision to make is between P. macroceras and P. grandiflora, I would say that it is P. macroceras. But the flower will show you for sure.


This is the P. macroceras that looks like it has plantlets forming at the side

Oh yes, there are even plantlets visible and there should be several more small gemmae. That one looks like it is latest time for harvesting the plantlets and gemmae and planting everything seperately. If plantlets or gemma are big enough to decide which side is up or down, just plant as normal, half-way into the ground. With smaller gemmae, the rounded side is down, the pointed or serrated side is up. With very small gemmae you cannot decide up or down, just sow them as you would do with seeds: Put on the ground and press on slightly. Other than with seeds, the "germination rate" of even small gemmae is 100% when kept moist.

My P. macroceras ssp. nortensis and P. grandiflora are growing in mini-bogs, filled with pure peat. Small gemmae I sometimes put into pots initially, which allows better handling at the kitchen table.
 
Thank you. I think I will leave them alone this year and check for gemmae earlier next year. I think taking some of the moss away from the base might make it easier to see what is happening and, who knows, maybe some may pop up in the moss close the the plants that I cannot see right now. I really hate to chance losing the plants by digging them up right now. I do hope to get more cold-hardy ping varieties into the bog this year.
 
I thought I had lost all my P. grandiflora last fall. But a few weeks ago I was out cleaning/weeding in the bog, and i found one medium-ish dormant bud. :boogie: It is now in a better location, out from under the plants that shaded it last year, and has 3-4 leaves already.


I, too, look forward to trying new species this year.
 
I had one come back like that in a pot. I thought it was dead and so put the pot under the table and forgot about it, let it dry out. I then moved the table and it got rained on and came back I am guessing from the roots.

I plant mine in the bog next to sarrs so that they get full morning sun and dappled sun in the afternoon. The grandiflora though seems to tolerate much more sun that the others, and may even do better with more sun.

I would love to see a bunch of pings and their little flowers all over the bog someday.
 
I think I will leave them alone this year and check for gemmae earlier next year. I think taking some of the moss away from the base might make it easier to see what is happening

For me, the best time to look after gemmae at the bottom of the buds, seperate them from the hibernacula and plant them individually is from mid of February until end of March. It's the weeks when the buds are opening/unfolding and the daily temperatures are in the range of +4...+10°C (40...50°F).

and, who knows, maybe some may pop up in the moss close the the plants that I cannot see right now.

Do you mean maybe seeds germinating on the moss?
If no seeds are present, only gemmae may sprout.
If gemmae are buried in the soil near the hibernaculum of the mother plant, the gemmae will be overgrown by its mother plant during summer.

I really hate to chance losing the plants by digging them up right now.

???
For me its the only time of the year for digging out and in hibernacula and gemmae of winter hardy Pinguicula.

This is because of the roots. The roots of cold-temperate Pinguicula are undergoing also a seasonal cycle of growing and dying as the summer leaves do. The difference is: The summer leaves are growing in spring and summer and dying in fall. The roots are growing in spring and summer, staying in fall and dying in winter. This time of the year the hibernacula of cold-temperate Pings have "dead roots" and new roots are just starting to grow. This is the best time of the year of dig them out and in.

Here is a picture showing roots of P. macroceras ssp. nortensis as of today, mostly dead roots:

P_macroceras_old_new_roots.jpg


The hibernaculum has a single short and living root, thats where the red arrow points. This root has grown already this season, it is just a few millimetres long. All the other roots you can see on the picture died during last winter. All these roots are hanging dead on the hibernaculum. Shortly they will degrade completely and many new roots grow through the old dead root mush.
 
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  • #10
Jesse: "Do you mean maybe seeds germinating on the moss?
If no seeds are present, only gemmae may sprout.
If gemmae are buried in the soil near the hibernaculum of the mother plant, the gemmae will be overgrown by its mother plant during summer
."

I meant the gemmae as I cannot see very well if any, if they are there, may have broken off. I can't look real close except to take a picture and blow it up because of where they are situated in the bog (very large bog). But I understand what you are saying about the moss and/or mother plant over growing them. I am moving some sarrs around in the bog soon and will wait until next year to dig up the pings and check for gemmae in winter/spring so I will have a better idea of where to put any gemmae so they get the proper sun/shade mix.

I really appreciate this information you have given as I really don't know a whole lot about pings in general as sarrs have been my main focus in the past and this will be very helpful for the future of what I do with them.
 
  • #11
Huh that is very interesting. I have never observed P. vulgaris doing this... I wonder if it is capable of it.
 
  • #12
I meant the gemmae as I cannot see very well if any, if they are there, may have broken off. I can't look real close except to take a picture and blow it up because of where they are situated in the bog (very large bog).

I understand. Even my 90-litre mini-bogs are about 100 kg (= 220 pounds), that is far too heavy for me to carry them around. I usually do the working with Pinguicula gemmae on my kitchen table like that:

I go out and cut out a small patch of soil (less than 2"x2") around the winter hibernacle with my pocket knife and take it into the house where it is warm and I have good lighting conditions, that's on my kitchen table. I can use a magnifying glass if needed. Then I carefully take growing moss away from the bottom of the hibernacle. If there are no gemmae present, the soil patch can go back to the mini-bog immediately and I put it back, perhaps with some fresh substrate added around the hibernacle instead of the moss.

If gemmae is present, I remove it from the hibernacle by scrubbing it off carefully with my pocket knife. Then the naked hibernacle can go back to the mini-bog immediately. The gemmae can be planted (or sown if very small) in a pot at first and cultivated potted standing in a tray for some weeks. Potted cultivation of gemmae allows better care initially, as I can easily put the pots in a frost-free shed if heavy frost comes back for some days, and I can protect them against heavy rainfall so they stay in the pots where I have put them (at first they have absolutely no roots, so rain tosses them around). Some weeks later after the gemmae started developing, I then can put them from potted cultivation into the bog in their final position for the next 12 months.

Huh that is very interesting. I have never observed P. vulgaris doing this... I wonder if it is capable of it.

Yes, sure! Nearly every cold-temperate Pinguicula can develop gemmae when kept under good cultivation conditions, fitting for the species.

I am not very experienced with P. vulgaris, but in late January this year I purchased a naked hibernacle of P. vulgaris with its gemmae on it. I removed the gemmae and planted the mother plant and its gemmae into a 3" pot. This is P. vulgaris and its gemmae planted around:

P_vulgaris_and_gemmae_potted.jpg


I don't know if I identify every gemmae on the picture, but it looks like 9 gemmae, planted around the mother plant hibernacle.

The amount of gemmae produced varies by species, cultivation and weather conditions. I think that P. vulgaris is not the species which produces most gemmae. And I believe that P. vulgaris is not the easisiest species in cultivation. P. grandiflora seems to be much easier in cultivation and P. grandiflora produces more gemmae than P. vulgaris. But it may depend on climate and many other circumstances, where in the world which species does better than another. And in many parts of the world, such like Southern US, climate may be generally too warm for cold-temperate Pinguicula to thrive.

So if somebody wants to decide, whether his Pinguicula species can have gemmae, just take from this Pinguicula classification:
- cold-temperate and winter hardy from the Northern hemisphere = gemmae forming* with hibernacle
- warm-temperate from Southern USA = no gemmae
- Mexican = no gemmae
- Southern hemisphere = no gemmae

*= If you use that Pinguicula classification, then you can predict:
ALL of the cold-temperate and winter hardy Pinguicula from the Northern hemisphere develop gemmae in fall and winter, with one single exception: P. alpina.

Pinguicula alpina is the only cold-temperate Pinguicula from the Northern hemisphere with absolutely no gemmae AND the roots of P. alpina stays alive all year round. So DO NOT dig out P. alpina, they have no gemmae (for sure!) and they do not like root disturbance as their roots are NOT dying during winter as with all the other cold-temperate and hibernacle-forming Pinguicula from the Northern hemisphere.
 
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  • #13
Jesse:

:-D Again, very good reference, thank you! With the roots dying back naturally in winter, I don't have to worry about disturbing the root system like I did before. I will watch for gemmae next year and follow your suggestions.

What exactly are your bog conditions throughout the year for your cold-hardy pings? Light, temps throughout the year, moisture level, etc. Since mine do not seem to be producing gemmae now, perhaps I need to tweek my bog conditions for them thoughout this growing season if possible. My bog is large, approximately 64 square feet with lots of sarrs plus other, so plenty of room to experiment with what I can control. There is a picture of my bog in the TF forum gallery, link in my signature line below.
 
  • #14
Interesting, I did not know these produce gemmae. It doesn't seem like many people have these in cultivation. Even an old dog learns something new now and then.

I just took my P. macroceras out of the refrigerator. Only one of the 3 surviving seedlings made an obvious winter bud. The rest disappeared.

P. macroceras, Hiouchi, Calif.
IMGP4046copy.jpg

IMGP4048copy.jpg


You kind of expect it to say "Feed me!"
 
  • #15
From seed, wow. Very nice. :-D Did you get seed from your own plants?
 
  • #16
I keep hoping to see cold-temperate ping gemmae on ebay but never do. I wonder why? I know they are not grown commonly in the states but they do seem to be more commonly grown in Europe. Don't the gemmae travel well?
 
  • #17
I think gemmae are viable only for a short time after harvesting and don't store well, the sooner they get planted the better.
 
  • #18
With the roots dying back naturally in winter, I don't have to worry about disturbing the root system like I did before.

"Disturbing the root" can really become a problem with cold-temperate Pinguicula - when repotting while they HAVE living roots during their growing cycle. Planting is absolutely no problem when the winter is over, when they are in winter buds and have only dead roots (hibernacle) or no roots (gemmae) and will start their next growing cycle. But when disturbing the roots during the growing cycle while they are in leaves, the plants may go straight ahead into the hibernacle within just four weeks after root disturbance, even during summer.

What exactly are your bog conditions throughout the year for your cold-hardy pings? Light, temps throughout the year, moisture level, etc. Since mine do not seem to be producing gemmae now, perhaps I need to tweek my bog conditions for them thoughout this growing season if possible. My bog is large, approximately 64 square feet with lots of sarrs plus other, so plenty of room to experiment with what I can control. There is a picture of my bog in the TF forum gallery, link in my signature line below.

You can look up the climate table of my area on the Internet:
Temps in °F: http://www.worldweather.org/016/c00055f.htm#climate
Temps in °C: http://www.worldweather.org/016/c00055.htm#climate
For winter time, the climate table doesn't tell the real truth, as the weather conditions may change dramatically during winter every two weeks or so. In winter we may have mild temperatures above freezing point with rain. We may have moderate freezing with lot of snow. Or we may have Siberian cold without snow. During one winter, we may have more or less of different weather conditions and it may change several times, but the climate table mixes that all into averages. I have my cold-temperate Pinguicula in mini-bogs (90 litres, 24 gallons) which are dug in ground-even.


Interesting, I did not know these produce gemmae. It doesn't seem like many people have these in cultivation. Even an old dog learns something new now and then.

I just took my P. macroceras out of the refrigerator. Only one of the 3 surviving seedlings made an obvious winter bud. The rest disappeared.

I think it is very hard to provide complete growing cycles through the year by providing artificial conditions for cold-temperate Pinguicula in an area where the temperatures are too warm. Rising and falling temperatures through the year. Longer and shorter daytimes through the year. Prevent too much heat in summer. Periods of freezing during winter. That's all hard to simulate if your climate is different from what the plants are used to.

I keep hoping to see cold-temperate ping gemmae on ebay but never do. I wonder why? I know they are not grown commonly in the states but they do seem to be more commonly grown in Europe. Don't the gemmae travel well?

Time is limited, but hibernacles and gemmae travel very well, while it is cold outside early in the year. If gemmae is wrapped in wet paper towel and it is on the postal travel for more than seven days, the gemmae may start to attach themselves to the paper towel with freshly grown roots, so the first roots of the gemmae may be stripped off when removing the gemmae from the paper towel they are wrapped into. But that's no big problem.

Big letters to USA travel about 5-6 days normally, add two days for a weekend, two days for customs and two days for phytosanitary importation, that's 12 days in total. Should be possible. Theoretically.

The main problem with international trade is: Gemmae are no seeds for the customs declaration, but they are living plants. Living plants need a phytosanitary certificate for international trading. The price for a phytosanitary certificate may be higher than the value of the buds and gemmae.

And with trade into the USA there is another big problem with plant imports by private persons: US customs, Border Control, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, USDA-APHIS, and whoever may be involved have forced a law, that only (I think) max. 12 plants are legal for a private, noncommercial import into the USA. Every import of more than 12 plants is declared a "commercial import" by law. Commercial importers need an import permit as a commercial plant importing company. So you must be a commercial plant importing company or you must have the same permits and follow the same rules and regulations as such a company to import 13+ gemmae of Pinguicula into the USA. Might be pretty uninteresting for international eBay sellers to offer gemmae at eBay and provide phytosanitary certificates for only a few commercial plant importing companies that have all the permits.

P. macroceras and P. vulgaris are native in the US, so it should be possible to get them from within the US.

And P. grandiflora sets many seeds and can (relatively) easily be propagated from seeds. I think seed importation requires much less paperwork than plant importation, as you in the US "only" need the Small Lots of Seed permit to stay legal (while I in Europe may import most seeds from all over the world except the agricultural species without any permit).
 
  • #19
From seed, wow. Very nice. :-D Did you get seed from your own plants?

They were field collected. This species is sensitive to inbreeding depression so in order to try to avoid that I'd need a minimum of 4 genetically different plants to try to establish a healthy population.

I think it is very hard to provide complete growing cycles through the year by providing artificial conditions for cold-temperate Pinguicula in an area where the temperatures are too warm. Rising and falling temperatures through the year. Longer and shorter daytimes through the year. Prevent too much heat in summer. Periods of freezing during winter. That's all hard to simulate if your climate is different from what the plants are used to.

Well that's the whole trick with growing living things is to provide as close an environment as possible as to what they are adapted to live in. The solutions can be out of reach financially as well as technologically. Sadly in most cases this doesn't keep people from trying.

The main problem with international trade is: Gemmae are no seeds for the customs declaration, but they are living plants. Living plants need a phytosanitary certificate for international trading. The price for a phytosanitary certificate may be higher than the value of the buds and gemmae.

And with trade into the USA there is another big problem with plant imports by private persons: US customs, Border Control, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, USDA-APHIS, and whoever may be involved have forced a law, that only (I think) max. 12 plants are legal for a private, noncommercial import into the USA. Every import of more than 12 plants is declared a "commercial import" by law. Commercial importers need an import permit as a commercial plant importing company. So you must be a commercial plant importing company or you must have the same permits and follow the same rules and regulations as such a company to import 13+ gemmae of Pinguicula into the USA. Might be pretty uninteresting for international eBay sellers to offer gemmae at eBay and provide phytosanitary certificates for only a few commercial plant importing companies that have all the permits.

Correct on all counts. 12 or less plants require a phytosanitary certificate as do seeds not qualifying as Small Seed Lots (in which case a import permit is required but not a phytosanitary certificate). Lots of 13 or greater require phytosanitary certificate and import permit. Seeds are seed. Anything capable of propagation requires a phytosanitary certificate this includes plants, cuttings, tubers, gemmae, pollen, tissue cultures and seeds (except small seed lots).

It is a sad state of affairs when citizens of other countries know the Custom and Agriculture laws of the US better than US citizens. Phytosanitary certificates can cost over $200 USD and some countries like Brazil require a certificate for each taxon shipped.
 
  • #20
p1000405yz.jpg


This is my P. corsica. I have about 4 mature plants, and alst fall they gave me about 30-40 gemmae each! I have more than I know what to do with. The reason I like temperate pings is 1) they have great flowers compared to other CP's, 2) very easy to propagate, especially in temperate areas. My pings are just breaking dormancy, I'll post some pictures when they start flowering (assuming they will :p )
 
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