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Do you grow P. 'Weser'?

adnedarn

I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az
Admin
Hello, I'm trying to explore these two plants since there is some confusion of them.  From what I can tell the plant I am growing is P. 'Sethos' (see pictures here )  
Anyway, if you think you are growing P. 'Weser' I would be interested in seeing pictures of the plant and close up of the flowers if you have any.  
Please note, if you have the picture but no way to post it.  Feel free to email it to me at adnedarn@comcast.net and I'll host it for you.
Thanks,
Andrew
 
Hi!

Look at this one, its a "P. x Weser":
http://www.jans-karnivoren.de.vu/....wer.jpg

Why did I put the "P. x Weser" in quotation marks? P. x Weser and P. x Sethos are cultivars made years ago. The plants in culture today are the same cross (same parents) but are not selected clones like the original plants.

Jan
 
Jan, thanks for the information and the picture. Your flower looks similar to mine as the white part is in a starish kinda shape. I think what I want to see, is a flower of this cross that instead of having a star white spot.... has a solitary white streak down the central lower lobe. Please view this page put together by Pingman. P. 'Weser' / P. 'Sethos' page I think from that you can see what clone I am searching for.
Thanks,
Andrew
 
Yes, but as I said: The photos show the both cultivars. We have similar plants, but not with those those genes. Our plants come from different nurseries and have the same parents, but are not the selected clones from A. Slack who registered the cultivar names. Search in this forum and you will find a thread regarding this topic.

Jan
 
O.K. I've looked up and read the conversations in this forum...  What we are saying is that we are growing P. moranensis x ehlersiae and even if we have a plant that looks like what we know of  P. 'Sethos' or P. 'Weser' we are not calling them that because we have no way to tell that they are the exact genes of the original  plants?
Thanks for the information and discussion.
Andrew
 
Yes and it looks rather similar, but the selected clones had special flower colors etc.
 
Uh, so far, genetic fingerprinting does not determine a "cultivar", unless said "genetic fingerprint" is included in the original description of that particular cultivar. Only matching the cultivar description and standard determines if said plant can be identified as to a particular cultivar.
 
I think Joe is correct, and I wish I could remember the conversation on the cp listserve on this, but Jan Schlauer said it pretty well to un-confuse the bulk of us.
I am of no help
sad.gif


Joe
 
But the cultivar is not only the parents but a specific selected clone as I remembered? So only plants reproduced from the selected plant are the cultivar. All other plants with the same parents are very similar, but not P. x Weser.

Jan
 
  • #10
Here is a quote from the CP cultivar registration authority, Jan Schlauer:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You would have to select a clone or a group of plants from this offspring that is characterized by unique features. It is not possible to register a hybrid formula as a cultivar name (as opposed to the possibility of legitimate usage of hybrid formulas for taxonomic names!). Cultivars must always be defined by their unique features, it is not possible to restrict these features just to their derivation or parentage. This is why it is important to describe these distinctive features carefully and to include in the description a standard picture showing these features.

i.e. "it is not possible to restrict these features just to their derivation or parentage"
 
  • #11
I am currently growing a plant that is supposed to be the real Weser straight from Slack's plant. I also know of one other grower with this plant. Neither of us has floweered it yet so the real ID is yet to be determined however but as soon as I see anything from mine or hear from the other grower I'd be happy to let you all know
 
  • #12
<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>JanW,
The image you posted earlier of Pinguicula 'Weser' seems to fits Slack's photographic standard and description for Pinguicula 'Sethos', "...many-rayed mouth like a white star...":
p_Sethos.jpg


This is Slack's photographic standard for Pinguicula 'Weser':
p_Weser.jpg
as the description states, "...solitary white streak down the central lower lobe..."

Pyro,
Anxiously looking forward to seeing a plant that actually fits, Slack's description for Pinguicula 'Weser' besides the photo in a certain CP photo gallery.</span>
 
  • #13
<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Remember; if a plant is indistinguishable from the written description and photographic standard for a certain cultivar, it is that cultivar.

If you were to include a genetic analysis in the cultivar written description, I would then assume you would then need to perform the same genetic analysis to positively identify any questionable plants.

With my mere human abilities, I promise you that I could not, without technical aide determine the genome/genetic identify of anything, let alone certain plant cultivars, if they are otherwise indistinguishable from each other.</span>
 
  • #14
OK
 
  • #15
I too await your flower Pyro!!
Thanks all, this helps alot...
smile.gif

Andrew
 
  • #16
Joseph,

While I can not guarantee that the plant is the true 'Weser' I do trust my source for it. It is possible he was given incorrect material but he has been looking for the real 'Weser' as well for some time and I do not believe he would keep the 'Weser' tag on it if he at all felt it was not.

Time will tell.
 
  • #17
The ironic thing is that even if Pyro's plant came from the one Slack grew called P. 'Weser', if it does not duplicate the photograph that Slack published as the standard for P 'Weser', then Pyro's plant is not P. 'Weser'. Cultivar descriptions care nothing about genetic identity, only for visable conformity with the standard photo. Either it looks the same or it doesn't. If it does: it is, and if it does not: it isn't. Nice and neat.
 
  • #18
I received this e-mail pertaining to this topic today:
Hi Andrew,
I read your post in the Ping forum.
Attached is a photo of the form of P. Weser available
here in New Zealand.
It came from a commercial grower in India as tissue
culture.
Regards
Peter Sebborn
PingWesser.jpg


Peter, That flower still seams to look more like 'Sethos' than 'Weser' to me. Although it is probably the closest thing I've seen to "A solitary streak down the bottom lobe." Yet, your plant does still have a blast style white along with the streak. Thanks for the e-mail!!
Andrew
 
  • #19
William,

You are correct, there is a chance that the plant I have is also incorrectly labled though I am inclined to believe that Slack would know his own plants so any plants distributed by him should hopefully be correct. Now there always is a chance that while changing hands to get to me the plant got mislabled but I am hoping that is not the case.

Peter,

I agree with Andrew, that plant doee not appear to be the true 'Weser'
 
  • #20
The plant I received from across seas is large enough to flower this year. I hope that it does. It is also supposed to be a true Weser, but it seems that many have a Weser that may not be. My Weser is reddish.
 
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