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Thread: N. northiana

  1. #33
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    I didn't find it ironic for you Nep-growers to chime in and back up Neps. I myself wouldn't want to see a rare nep trading resource disappear if I was into growing neps as much as some of you. However note that my post wasn't an attack on Neps, and that it was made to bring to the attention of people who are reading this thread who maybe are interested in this cutting.

    Secondly this forum is for trading, not sales. No it probably wouldn't hurt Phil's business because he probably doesn't have something rare like that in his collection. However this is Phil's webspace, he hosts this community and we must respect his rules. Don't tell me this isn't sales, it is. The purpose of trading is to trade something for something you want. If he comes here knowing that no one will have what he wants and insteads accepts a cash amount, that's a sale. Any plant cutting for money = sale.

    Thirdly I'm sorry Neps that I do not know who you are, who you have met, where you have traveled, and what you have in your collection. Maybe you should have a growlist/want list in your signature if it is too much trouble for you to tell people privately what you are looking for. Like I said I just asked you what you were looking for, for the cutting. You just assumed I have nothing that you could want, and instead asked me for money.

    For those that are interested here is the convo I had with him, quote to quote:

    Code Sample

    Quote (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 23 2005,8:02)
    Hi there,

    I was wondering what you were interested in for one of those nep cuttings?

    Quote (Neps)
    Money order or cash is fine. The charge is $75.00 plus
    $8.00 postage. Let me know if you're still interested.

    Quote (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 24 2005,2:36)
    $75? There are no sales allowed in the trading forum.

    Quote (neps @ Sep. 24 2005,7:45)
    I told you what I had to offer, but since you did not offer any specific items to trade, I made the only response I could.
    Keep in mind, I'm getting a lot of responses to this. I don't
    have time to waste gossiping back and forth about whether
    you have this or that. And finally, if I work out an individual
    sale with someone for cash, that's my business, and it's fine.
    What is disallowed is to overtly ask for cash, which I have NOT
    done.

    Finally, given your response, I'll tacitly assume that you are
    not interested.

    Quote (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 24 2005,5:59)

    I'm sorry you don't have time to "waste" negotiating a CP trade on a trading forum. I will tactically withdrawl from your trade because 1) you offer something that I don't necessarily need/want 2) I can get it from someone with a better attitude.

    Good luck with your trades.
    [/QUOTE]
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  2. #34
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Hmm well first off.. it's pretty darn rude to post private conversations publicly.

    Second I think your both being pretty darn harsh to each other claiming all this attitude, which I don't see. I do see points on both sides. True this is a trading forum and it says no sales. As mentioned though Neps would be quite happy to trade instead of asking for money. The no sales rule is to prevent people from coming in here and posting lists with prices and using this space purely to make a profit. The initial post did not ask for cash. There was a follow up post mentioning that trades were preferred but cash would be accepted if someone really wanted one but had nothing to offer for doing a fair trade. Neps was not looking to sell these. That's why it was not a violation of the rules. Perhaps a fine line but so be it.

    The person making the reply to the initial offer should also make the effort to offer a list of possible items the other party might find interesting. Even if they don't list what they are looking for I send a small list with what I feel are fair offers. It is much more polite to do this than ask the person to come up with a list of what they would accept. Maybe I will hit on something that gains their interest. If not I might try again if my first offer was not accepted. But to ask someone to spend time compiling a list what they will accept for the trade when they have no clue what you even grow, IS a waste of time for them. The one that knows what you grow and what is available is you, the person replying to the initial offer.

    Tony

    Ok that's enough modding :PPPP

    be nice
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  3. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Tony Paroubek @ Sep. 25 2005,2:29)]Geewizz folks.. The trade only thing is simply meant to keep people from using the forums to just downright sell plants for profit. Particularly common plants that are the crux of PFT sales.

    Neps made his many good points about offering up a mature N. northiana. Most people simply won't have anything that would be of equal value or something that he would be even looking for. When is the last time you have seen N. northiana cuttings several feet in diameter offered up I think it would be a bit unrealistic to have him just give them away for free because most people don't have something comparable to trade and this is a trade only forum. Most people would gladly pay $15 retail for a plant only a few inches in diamter! I would jump on his deal in a heartbeat if I had the room to house and properly grow such a plant. And if I didn't have something to make a fair trade would gladly pay his asking fee. Trust me he's not getting rich on mature N. northiana cuttings! I just hope that when I do have a proper lowland space I will be able to take advantage of a future offer.

    The thing to remember.. Neps is a serious hobbyist with a tremendous collection. I am sure he would jump on a trade vs asking a few bucks if it was something that would enhance his collection further. That is the difference between this kind of offer vs someone jumping in here to simply unload a bunch of VFT for $$$.

    Tony
    as tony says, there is no way he is selling100s of norianthia cuttings away, he is probably jsut selling a few for some spare money for his collection
    Join the CCPS, you wont regret it: http://s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS

  4. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]For those that are interested here is the convo I had with him, quote to quote:
    Well, this is the kind of behavior that I simply am tired of
    having to tolerate. I had hoped that this would stop, but
    apparently not.

    There are many fine people on this forum, and I am very
    fond of you. It has been a pleasure to share
    ideas and experience, as well as plant material. However,
    I am fed up. I just don't have time or patience to deal
    with childish BS anymore. So, I will never again
    make any offers of rare plant material through this forum.
    Sorry to those who are responsible, mature people, but
    this headache and irritation is not worth it. I really don't
    need the money, for I make plenty. The issue for me was
    to share what I have grown. However, it's far easier
    just to cut the vines, throw them in the trash, and be
    done with it! And, if anyone thinks I'm being petty, keep in
    mind that I've had to deal with a lot more of this kind
    of behavior than is evident here! You don't know the full
    extent of it, I assure you!

    So, that's it! I will honor sales and trades for this material
    with those who have contacted me previously, or in the near
    future, for there are still a few cuttings unclaimed. But, I
    will not again make the mistake of trying to publicly offer
    rare plant material here.

  5. #37

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    .....
    \"Nepenthes, the Devil's Cup\" - Santos
    Updated 5/27/06 Grow/Want List
    Updated 4/4/06 My Nepenthes Photo Album
    Feel free to call me @: (562)528-6223 - seriously!

  6. #38
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Tony Paroubek @ Sep. 25 2005,5:24)]Hmm well first off.. it's pretty darn rude to post private conversations publicly.
    I posted a transcript of what occurred because he was claiming something else. Sorry if the truth is considered rude.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  7. #39
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=[b]Quote[/b] (neps @ Sep. 25 2005,5:53)]
    However,
    I am fed up. I just don't have time or patience to deal
    with childish BS anymore. So, I will never again
    make any offers of rare plant material through this forum.
    Sorry to those who are responsible, mature people, but
    this headache and irritation is not worth it. I really don't
    need the money, for I make plenty. The issue for me was
    to share what I have grown. However, it's far easier
    just to cut the vines, throw them in the trash, and be
    done with it! And, if anyone thinks I'm being petty, keep in
    mind that I've had to deal with a lot more of this kind
    of behavior than is evident here! You don't know the full
    extent of it, I assure you!
    Who's being childish now? I just wanted people to know what kind of trading services you were offering. Sorry if you took it to heart.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  8. #40
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Sep. 25 2005,6:52)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Tony Paroubek @ Sep. 25 2005,5:24)]Hmm well first off.. it's pretty darn rude to post private conversations publicly.
    I posted a transcript of what occurred because he was claiming something else. Sorry if the truth is considered rude.
    I understand you were simply concerned and trying to alert folks, which is a fine idea. However you have since ignored any efforts to explain how this situation is different and not breaking the rules which you seem to think.

    Now on to my own situation which by now I should have known better to simply stay out of it.
    Congrats.. now you have pissed me off as well. Despite my best efforts to explain how the rules pertain to the forum.

    Did I say the truth was considered rude? READ WHAT IS WRITTEN AND DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

    If you had bothered to think about what I said, it should have been plainly obvious. It is written in simple enough terms.

    It is RUDE TO POST PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS. There is no mention of truth or falsehood WHATSOEVER in that statement!!!!

    Tony

    ps. Neps you know you may drop me a message at any time when you have spare plants available.
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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