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Do not send

  • #41
Never try to understand another human.. We're all weirdo's!

I myself am a gambling man.. But I know the difference between a smart bet and a bad one. I've had plants coming in all winter. HOWEVER.. I spring extra for overnight express and heatpacks. Especially with high end plants. HOWEVER.. There are still orders from back before Christmas that haven't been shipped yet all because of the temps. So it goes both ways. If I tell someone it's too cold, and they want me to ship THEIR plants.. I will. But I tell them that I won't refund or replace any DOA's. And I expect the same in return.. If I really really want the plants to arrive in good shape, I'll just wait. Better safe than sorry!
Good talk guys..
 
  • #42
Same here good talk. These threads are rare.
 
  • #43
You don't know me i don't go to bed untill 4-5 even during the week.

It's comments like this that make this forum so memorable. :-))

Reading up on these so-called "debates" is intriguing, the sheer volume of arrogance and stubbornness is baffling, but so are the comments ;)

Carry on! :banana2:
 
  • #44
No, don't carry on. I think we've had enough here.
 
  • #45
No lets not carry on i wouldn't mind if a mod would (lock this) Hint hint.

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------

Right on time PRESTO way to go idaho!
 
  • #46
Why would anyone want that? why would anyone insist it be shipped?
that makes no sense..you cant wait a few weeks to get a live plant?

If I was shipping CPs, and the receiver INSISTED, I would say "too bad, get over it, im not killing a plant because you are too impatient"..

actually, if someone insisted, I would refuse to ship to them, ever, and would withdraw the offer, because they obviously aren't a responsible CP owner and grower..

Scot

and yet, this thread exists because of someone actually is doing that very thing...

plus it's not as easy in this situation...perhaps if i were giving away plants--freebies, yes, that would make sense to release your plants at your own discretion and to who.

however, what if you are participating in a trade? if you received your portion of the trade, and the other individual wanted their part, NAO---insisting on it? what else is there to do? like Summer stated, the shipper should not be liable...i am also speaking concerning this specific case, and possible identical future cases. again these should be anomalies, not the norm.

personally, im with the camp that waits out for favorable weather as well...
 
  • #47
I also wait for favorable weathr, but if others dont care if they recieve mush thats not my problem.
 
  • #49
Shipping anything, anytime, is up to traders.

I know people want to let this thread die, and I am sensitive to that. However, some things really do need to be adressed.

Let's just bear in mind that I am a patient person and am willing to wait for the best conditions before acquiring plants. I've negotiated 2 trades in the summer last year, and both were shipped to me this winter because my trading partners claimed, that (ironically in regard to the argument here) winter, specifically February, was the best time to ship them...and one of these deals was with Lois Ochs.

I waited half a year...patiently...when I had sent both my parts months in advance. And, no, I was not upset! I wanted the plants to be shipped at the best time. I do not think any less of my trading partners for shipping months behind me.

I'm not really up on what the whole argument is here, but I do agree that waiting is good, and also that sometimes it is important (to the reciever) to ship in the winter, as to get a plant established in your collection so it will thrive and flower in the spring or summer.

Why would anyone want that? why would anyone insist it be shipped?
that makes no sense..you cant wait a few weeks to get a live plant?

If I was shipping CPs, and the receiver INSISTED, I would say "too bad, get over it, im not killing a plant because you are too impatient"..

actually, if someone insisted, I would refuse to ship to them, ever, and would withdraw the offer, because they obviously aren't a responsible CP owner and grower..
Scot

This is a very harsh stance. We were all newbies once. Most of us have killed a few flytraps. I did! But I learned something from it other than how to correctly take care of them:

I cannot discount my experience even though I am shocked as I look back on it. I once had a VFT for a whole year. It lived in 2" of soil, in a very shady place, and was watered occasionally with 400-500ppm tap water. It lived from spring of purchase to spring of flowering...then it died, of course. No way it should have made it that far, but the flowering was the last thing. But seriously, it would even catch earwigs.

People who don't understand the seriousness of shipping in cold weather are not necessarily "[irresponsible] CP owner(s) and grower(s)."

So check this out..
it just so happens, I have been monitoring the temperatures of packages in the US mail lately! ;)
For work, I have been tracking the temps of photo paper placed in trucks and being shipped between Rochester, NY and Colorado..for the project, all we care about is the temp inside the truck..but the package, containing the temp sensor, is mailed back to me, so I also get the readings while the sensor was in the US mail..I pulled out just the data from when the package was in the mail, here is an example from a month ago:

1189275741_6SQL5-L.gif


That shows 4 days in the US mail.
scary..
each data point is 30 minutes apart.
the package went through four freeze-thaw cycles, some of them quite severe.
and an overall temp range between 75F and 9 below zero!

yeah..dont ship plants in the winter..

Scot

This is very interesting! However, I might just want to explore a few variables:

How was the package sent back to you? Most of us send plants priority mail, but I have my doubts that you would send your temp. sensor this way since the cost would be high. But still, I don't rule out the possiblity that you did so.

Also keep in mind that not all of us send plants to cold regions during the winter. I know San Diego is not cold...and a few of us members live here ( at least SDCPs, zhilin, Miguel SK1...lizard atavar, and Mrs...with the "nep ghettos") Forgive me for the horrible references to you guys but I forget the screennames or mispell them.

thanks!
yeah, its pretty interesting, and telling, data.
I have 4 months of data like that, HEAVY temp swings from the US mail..
I dont think they pay any attention to temperature control at all..its just not a factor in their business model..

Scot

Just to explore testimonies from professional shippers of CPs, I quote:

"Yeah, I imagine that it does happen from time to time. But Steve and I have shipped probably over 100 orders during the winter months via USPS Priority Mail and we've not yet had one customer report that the plants were frozen upon arrival."

"I have also shipped hundreds of orders through USPS over the past couple winters and have had very good results. I add 72-hour chemical heat packs when the weather looks especially severe, but I have yet to determine how necessary that is."

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1007509&postcount=19
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1007576&postcount=25

Why do these shippers have such success? Is Scott's data not representing their average shipping conditions?

nope..not at all.
if you cant be bothered to take proper care of a plant, or CARE about its proper care,
why should I send you one? sorry, but I have no respect for irresponsible people..

People might want to think twice about sending plants to SDPS, Doomsday and eou812.
IMO they are not worthy
.

Scot

Friend: how wrong you may be.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, I don't think too much less of anybody that has participated in this discussion, but it has saddened me. So, I apologize for stirring the pot again, but the mods left this open for good reasons that only they know :clap:, and I'm going contribute.
 
  • #50
I apologize in advance for further adding to a thread where some emotions are apparently running higher than the average quasi-controversial thread (& to make it worse, I probably have not read every post). Sorry...

There seem to be two sides of this debate - both of which I have found interesting.

- the 1st is the factual (or quasi-factual) debate about the safety (& wisdom) of sending plants via USPS during winter months. Interesting reading for sure ...

- the other side of this discussion, which has mostly taken a back seat, is the consideration (or lack of) one trader provides to the person on the other side of the trade. Rose has stated that she is uncomfortable with ....

---- for the most part, if I was on the other side of that trade, I don't need to complete that sentence. She is uncomfortable, I say ok and we'll wait until the time is right for her to be comfortable in the trade. I attempt to be patient the majority of the time and therefore I can also take into consideration the feelings of the person on the other side. Whether they are too busy to get to the post office or they have a sick cat or they're afraid the weather may be too cold or ....

There have been a number of times that a trade has 'technically' gone smoothly for me but some of the smaller things (upfront negotiations, delays in responding, etc) that when everything is done, I have the feeling that the trade didn't go well and I'm not likely to trade with that individual again. For me, a good trade consists of both parties feeling good about 1) what they received and 2) how all the other little pieces of the trade worked.

To be fair, I stated how I would have responded to Rose if I were eou. To take the flip side, how would I have responded to eou, if I were Rose? While I could hypothetically answer with Amp's "ship-at-your-own-risk" policy - - but to be realistic & truthful, I would not have entered into this trade. Eou's previous activities on this forum (including chatbox) would have kept me from agreeing to any such transaction...
 
  • #51
I get where this is going. so I'll go ahead and eat one too...
check your temps and check the temps of where you are shipping to. Make sure the plant gets there safely...
The one thing we all can agree on is a safe plant.
 
  • #52
The one thing we all can agree on is a safe plant.

lol.. apparently not.. otherwise this thread wouldn't be six pages long. :-))
 
  • #53
Forgive me, i tried to resist the urge.... but alas
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0WOIwlXE9g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
  • #54
LMAO... Is that Monty Python? You crack me up Butch..
 
  • #55
number two... the larch.
 
  • #56
So that you know Eou has agreed to be patient and I have agreed to include a couple more plants. We are both happy with the agreement. He gets more plants and I know that they while make it to him safely.

I had a $75 order coming in and could not stop it. It came today and it is freezing out there. Luckily I was watching for the box and had paid for a heat pack to be included. Still I got them just in time. The plants were cold, but do not appear to be damaged. The heat pack was luke warm, phew, barely made it.
 
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