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Thread: Drosera capensis "Big Pink" giveaway

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    David F's Avatar
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    @ NatchGreyes, If it were Mendelian genetics then the Big Pink would be strictly "Red" which they are not .

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    1. Rookie grower
    2. SerMuncherIV
    3. iProcreate
    4. rjhaway - great giveaway.
    5. ZeRoKooL - Thank you!
    6. Ramdacc - thanks!
    7.

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    NatchGreyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David F View Post
    @ NatchGreyes, If it were Mendelian genetics then the Big Pink would be strictly "Red" which they are not .
    Biology was a long time ago. I meant Punnett Square. The offspring follow the classical Punnett Square. About 1/4 are "alba." About 3/4 are reddish in color. (They are still too young to definitively tell whether they are "red" or "Big Pink." However, given that "red" usually grows quite slowly in my conditions, where as "alba" grows quite rapidly, at this point, it looks like about 2/3 of the reddish colored offspring are keeping pace with the "alba" ones, which are fairly large juveniles, and 1/3 is still barely above seedling stage. That's what I would expect with a classic Punnett Square - 1/4 slow ("red), 1/2 "Big Pink," and 1/4 "alba").

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    David F's Avatar
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    Upon clarification I do see your point now. If you could post photos or email me further on the subject I would appreciate it.

    I'd like to point out that the plant once sold as Drosera capensis " Sunset" was a red x 'Albino', the resulting progeny were phenotypically "Alba". In other words the red dominated plants could be the recessive allele. Therefore the parents of "Big Pink" are probably heterozygous "Alba" X "red".

    Unless someone has a better idea then "Big Pink" is most likely ("Red"x"Alba") x ("Red"x"Alba). However, it could be the result of a more complex cross, as contrary to popular belief, mendelian genetics are not very common. Oftentimes there are more than 1 or 2 mechanisms in the genome which control an organisms phenotype.

    For instance, "Big Pink" are not just colored differently, they are also larger and more vigorous.

    I'll be doing more detailed write ups in the future about the species of Drosera capensis, and I hope you all stay tuned.

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    NatchGreyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David F View Post
    Upon clarification I do see your point now. If you could post photos or email me further on the subject I would appreciate it.

    I'd like to point out that the plant once sold as Drosera capensis " Sunset" was a red x 'Albino', the resulting progeny were phenotypically "Alba". In other words the red dominated plants could be the recessive allele. Therefore the parents of "Big Pink" are probably heterozygous "Alba" X "red".

    Unless someone has a better idea then "Big Pink" is most likely ("Red"x"Alba") x ("Red"x"Alba). However, it could be the result of a more complex cross, as contrary to popular belief, mendelian genetics are not very common. Oftentimes there are more than 1 or 2 mechanisms in the genome which control an organisms phenotype.

    For instance, "Big Pink" are not just colored differently, they are also larger and more vigorous.

    I'll be doing more detailed write ups in the future about the species of Drosera capensis, and I hope you all stay tuned.
    Yep, there's one on my instagram from a week ago. This is one of, I think, 8 pots of seedlings. All seem to show a pretty similar mix. They grow fairly quickly outside, where they can catch their own insects.

    And, just for the record, there's no possibility of contamination with D. capensis "alba" seeds. I haven't had any D. capensis "alba" flower for me. The soil mixture was new from a new bag of Canadian sphagnum and perlite. And the last time I was given D. capensis "alba" seeds (or any D. capensis seeds, for that matter) was some 8 months ago, and those were all sewn in a separate pot in a completely different room. These are definitely the "Big Pink" selfed seedlings.

    I've heard from other growers that they've crossed "red" and "alba" and seen the same pinkish coloration in the F1 offspring and the plants have grown to be larger and more vigorous than either parent. Assuming that these variants of D. capensis are different enough, I would not be surprised if their offspring displayed a kind of "hybrid vigor" as is common with other plants.

    My understanding, although it's from reading some article or book back in the day, is that "red" was actually the offspring of a typical plant in cultivation, but I can't find a source for that now, and I don't really care to look.

    Obviously, someone would need to do so controlled crosses to determine what phenotypes will characteristically display, but I'm not aware of anyone doing that at this time.

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    David F's Avatar
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    @NatchGreyes, I am the only one doing that at this time.

    I was not suggesting that the plants you have were contaminated by alba or red, simply that the ones from Josh may have been. Which would help to explain our heterozygous hosts of the "Big Pink". As far I know hybrid vigor would not apply here unless they are different species. Although there may be some benefit from the diverse recombinant chromosomes of these plants.

    The red form of this plant is a natural variant found in Africa, although I would not be surprised if it could arise from a typical. Take the Gifburg locality plants for instance, they are large and red. I've done a small write up with descriptions of all of the capensis I could find and will soon be conducting extensive experiments. All that's left now is building my grow area, and waiting for the last few of the seeds to trickle in from Europe.

    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...-locality-list

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    NatchGreyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David F View Post
    @NatchGreyes, I am the only one doing that at this time.

    I was not suggesting that the plants you have were contaminated by alba or red, simply that the ones from Josh may have been. Which would help to explain our heterozygous hosts of the "Big Pink". As far I know hybrid vigor would not apply here unless they are different species. Although there may be some benefit from the diverse recombinant chromosomes of these plants.

    The red form of this plant is a natural variant found in Africa, although I would not be surprised if it could arise from a typical. Take the Gifburg locality plants for instance, they are large and red. I've done a small write up with descriptions of all of the capensis I could find and will soon be conducting extensive experiments. All that's left now is building my grow area, and waiting for the last few of the seeds to trickle in from Europe.

    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...-locality-list
    Oh, no, I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting my plants were contaminated. I just wanted to be sure that you knew that the only capensis seeds I had were from "Big Pink and the only capensis flowering at that time were "Big Pink" so there's no possibility I mixed things up. I figured it was important for you to know my results to compare them against whatever yours will be.

    I'm not sure how Josh propagates it. I do know that he is the origin for "Big Pink." (See his site). I thought I had discussed with him how to propagate it and he had told me only through cuttings, but I can't find that email exchange now, so I'm not sure.

    As far as hybrid vigor (heterosis) goes, it appears that different species are not necessary, only different heterotic groups. If I understand the concept correctly, and I may not, you only need different alleles at the same loci. The easiest way to get this to occur is to cross two species, but, as with maize, it can be done with a single species as long as there is enough variation in the genetic code. In practice, with carnivorous plants, you won't likely see this occur in, e.g., pure species seed-grown Nepenthes, unless each parent comes from a different location and there is low incidence of breeding between those locations, but you will (and do) see it with hybrids of two species quite often. Similarly, assuming I'm understanding this correctly, if a plant, such as D. capensis, typically self-pollinates, you should be able to cross two individuals of that species and see more heterosis, if the two parents have enough genetic variation. So, my hypothesis would be that you would likely see some offspring exhibiting heterosis if you crossed two individuals from different locations.

    Again, this isn't my area of expertise, I just let my "Big Pink" self, collected the seeds, sewed them and got what appears to be a mix of alba and red forms. (I took another photo of one of the pots for you today. Not sure if it's the same pot. They all look pretty much the same. As you can see, the plants have grown quite a bit in a week. The "alba" ones are still alba, but as the "red" ones have grown, some have appeared more typical).

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    David F's Avatar
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    The typical coloration you are seeing may just be "Big Pink" growing faster than anthocynin can be produced. Thank you for the information on heterosis, I will be surprised and amazed if one gene on one chromosome combination results in heterosis. My current thought is that there are a combination of genes contributing to this phenomenon, but as you mentioned, they are on the same loci.

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