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P. parviflora journal.

  • #61
8/28/08- Today I harvested two more claws. One from plant #4 and another from #1.

I have acquired some very helpful info about harvesting and seed storage from the Devil's Claw master herself, allegedhuman (Evin). She gave me permission to post part of her PM in this thread. I found it very insightful:

Usually I pick a few of the nicest, longest, seed pods once they start to shed their outer green fleshy coat but before the hard woody pod starts to split so I make sure I do not lose those seeds if they split open early and spill all over the ground. I keep the pods in a concrete building of ours outdoors and since they usually start to reach this stage in fall the building is rather cool as they finish drying and finally split open on their own then I can pick all the seeds out.

If I have a lot of smaller pods that are not as impressive to collect for next year or some late season pods I sometimes even leave them on the plant until really late fall after frost kills the plant and then throw the pods in a bucket in the building to pick seeds out whenever I have the time once they have finished curing.

Either way, the seeds don't seem to matter which way I harvest them as long as they are mature and no longer increasing in size. I just like to wait until they shed the green coat so I am sure they are completely mature, especially if the pod is a really evil looking large one so I am sure to save viable seeds from that wicked pod for next year.

Once I have separated the seeds I usually put them in a zip-lock baggie and store them in the cool basement with our other garden seeds like pumpkins, watermelons, etc. I have never tried storing them in the fridge, I think my family would have been less than pleased with that. I don't know if storing them in the fridge would increase their germination, although I have never had much of a problem with germination and the storage method I have used so far since I keep them cool and dry in the basement.

I don't know how much digging out of seeds you have done yet already but make sure you dig all of them out. There are some in the hollow cavity between the 4 prongs that can be easily shaken out or easily poked free but then there are alot more hidden behind tissue layers along the outer walls of the pod. I like to use a pokect knife to dig those out ( but then again that just may be because I like to play with sharp pointy things... ) Not like you NEED to get each and every seed because you won't have many based on the amount and size of your plants, but otherwise if you go to compost the seed pods or whatever they will reseed ALL OVER and your entire gardens will become infested with them.

Another thing to note is that I often separate seeds into "perfect, normal creamy to brown" and "kinda off-color gray" sets and store them separately in case the grey "maybe moldy ones" actually did have mold issues and would spread and cause problems for all the seeds. Apparently Crissytal, who also got some seeds, has a problem with some black and blue speckles which may be mold on some of her seeds when she has been harvesting some of hers. So that is just something else to possibly keep in mind when harvesting seeds.

~Evin

Thanks again Evin!
 
  • #62
Thanks for sharing the tips! This is all new to me. I actually have a developing Ibicella lutea fruit as well. The Ibicella produces more flowers than the Probiscidae.
 
  • #63
9/5/08- Well it's September! Since my last post I have harvested several claws and have gotten the gist of the dehiscing and harvesting process.

Before I go on, I would like to clear up some terminology. Now, this is MY personal use of the words and is by no means official. I am posting this to clear up possible ambiguity between my use of the terms fruit and claw within my posts and the data tables:

Fruit: The immediate product of a successful pollination. Most importantly, a fruit still contains the fleshy, green tissue or skin.
Claw: This is the hard, woody "core" of the fruit that is left after the fruit ripens and sheds its green "skin". The claw also houses the seeds.

Now that that's out of the way….
Once mature, the fruit skin will begin to split. Most of the time the first split occurs on the distal end of the fruit. Sometimes, some fruit will show a split toward the top, right up near the stem. If the split appears here it is very likely that the distal end has already formed a split. Once either or both of these splits become apparent on a certain fruit, I harvest it. Finally, like Evin suggested, I leave them inside at room temperature and let them finish dehiscing, which occurs quite rapidly… within two days at times.

A couple days ago, I experienced a mold issue with one of the claws. Earlier, I believed that it would be okay if I allowed a fruit to remain on its respective plant until it completely shed its fleshy skin. After dropping its "skin" I would go on to harvest. Well, I tried this system on a certain fruit. I let it do its thing and then went in for the harvest. I later inspected it and found a nasty surprise. Mold had made its way into the seed capsule of the claw. It was the white-fuzzy mold, and had gotten all the way up inside the capsule and got to all of the seeds. Since this claw was near the ground, I assumed the moisture/water got to it and allowed the mold to grow. Because of all of this, I now harvest fruits using the method mentioned in the paragraph above, not letting moisture come in contact with the pod or seeds.

Now onto seed collection… I let the claw COMPLETELY dry out before trying to pry out the seeds. Once given enough time, I use a dissecting probe and remove the seeds from the claw. Then I spread the seeds out on a paper towel and leave them out in room temperature for a couple days, giving them plenty of time to dry out (although they already seem dry). Finally, I follow Evin's advice and divide them up, separating the good-looking, healthy ones from the darker deformed ones and place them in a baggie.

The claws are really alien looking. I am especially fond of the large ones that have four hooks. My longest claw marks in at around 14.5 inches and is from plant #2. In addition, the highest seed yield from a claw is 81 seeds, again from plant #2. Keep in mind that there are many more claws coming in daily, as well as the fact that I have had the opportunity to count the seeds from only a handful of claws.

My plants are still prolific and are still growing and sending up many flowers. I find myself dedicating 15 to 20 minutes daily just for pollination. I pollinate first, then harvest, and then water. All of this is done at around 6:30PM, a little before sundown.

Last but not least, my data table. Please note that I have eliminated some of the data columns and added some more relevant ones. I deleted both the "height and diameter of plant" columns because of the wind damage. Since many of the tallest branches where bent drastically and ended up literally on top of other plants, height became irrelevant. Also, since the patch has become so dense I can no longer estimate the number of fruit on each plant, let alone note which ones belong to what plant. Thus, I also eliminated the "number of fruit currently on plant" column. Also, since it is still unknown to me whether or not the one fruit from plant #10 was ripe or not at the time #10 died, I decided to mark some of its data as outliers and pointed to entry 8/26/08. Lastly, if you see that I have harvested a claw from a certain plant, but have no data under average seed yield or claw length for that plant, then this indicates that the claw(s) is still drying or that I have not had the chance to count or measure. Pretty obvious… :D

Enjoy and thanks for reading :) :
 
  • #64
14.5 "? Man, mine have a long way to go... and I doubt I'll ever see anything close to that. I borrowed a co-worker's camera and hope to have pictures of fruit and flower.

Thanks for the clarification. I am very new to this. Next year I will use a 5 gallon bucket.
 
  • #65
Not the best pictures, but:

DSCF1702.jpg
I. lutea

DSCF1700.jpg
P. parviflora

DSCF1690.jpg
P. parviflora & I. lutea
 
  • #66
Jim, that is exactly what my #10 plant and fruit looked like when it was still alive in its pot. Like the fruit I got off my plant #10, yours haven't developed much of a "claw" either. It's probably safe to say that its due to the fact that they are grown in pots. Even if you don't get much of a claw feature on your fruits, you should be able to get plentiful seed.


Thanks for posting the pictures and good luck. :)
 
  • #67
Thanks... and next year, as was suggested by Allegedhuman, I am going to use a bucket, as I do with N.A. temperates, a 5 gallon thing. That will be deep enough to do the job.
 
  • #68
Nice updates. Jim - how tall are yours?

xvart.
 
  • #69
Maybe 8". They must be the dwarf variety! I don't even know whey they produced flowers and claws. There's not much to them.
 
  • #70
Better pictures:

IMG_0753.jpg


IMG_0720.jpg
 
  • #71
Oooo... the I. lutea flowers are very nice looking. Maybe it's just that I am used to seeing the pink parviflora flowers over and over and over. :)
 
  • #72
Our tropical storm bent over the plant all the way to the left. That was the oldest fruit. I guess it's "toast"?
 
  • #73
9/5/08- (afternoon) I was looking at the plants this afternoon and noticed that the new growth on plant #1 was extremely sticky. The new emerging leaves, petioles, and even the stems had a ton of "dew". Since I began growing these plants I have not seen such an amount of "dew" on any of the plant's foliage and I am not sure what caused the new growth of #1 to become so sticky. After close inspection of this area, I finally saw PROOF! Yes, evidence of the plant's pseudo-carnivorous nature. There was a small black ant/wasp looking insect. It was dead and located on the sticky hairs of a vertically oriented petiole, just like a bug gets stuck on a Drosera. I am pretty happy because I thought I would end the growing season without seeing evidence of these plants' wannabe carnivorous abilities.

9/6/08- I have been observing minor caterpillar damage throughout the week... yet again! I wanted to hold off on the insecticide, but today I had no choice. I saw four buggers chewing on different plants and fresh turds everywhere. So I sprayed away again.

9/10/08- Today, I had a minor accident. Well, it's more like I caused a minor accident. As I was pollinating and stepping around the patch, I got into an area that had very little open space. It was towards the front. As I moved, my leg snapped off a stem that contained three medium to small sized claws from plant #8. They were still very tender and I am guessing that none of their seed will be viable.

9/12/08- Plant #5 had a fruit that dehisced for the first time today. As I was harvesting the small fruit, I saw another on the floor right next to it. It had not split yet and I don't know how it ended up off its stem.

Now that many of the lower leaves have fallen off the more older, mature plants, one can see just how thick the stems can get, especially towards the base of the plants.

9/19/08- More harvesting!! Yesterday, I did a quick count of how many total claws I have already harvested and I got count of 60 claws. The longest one thus far is a whopping 16 inches! Again, please remember that I am measuring from stem to claw tip, accounting for the claw's curve. Also, the largest seed yield from a single claw is 93 seeds!

Since temperatures have slightly dropped, I finally started watering less a couple days ago. The watering every other day method seems to be working out so far. Temperatures are still in the low to mid 90's, so I am still keeping an eye on them. The growing season is slowing down and the plants seem to reflect this a bit. I am seeing less flowers pop up and am spending less time pollinating.

I was also searching on the internet and found another page from the Wayne's World website that I had not seen before and that mentions devil's claws, specifically, the hohokamiana (domesticated) variety. It mentions that it is not unusual for the claws of this variety to get up to 15 inches long. Here is the link. You'll have to scroll down to section #8 The World's Largest Hitchhiking Fruit:

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0601.htm

Lastly, I updated the data table once again… see the attachment below. Also, I got the chance to purchase some film for my camera, so look out for pictures sometime in the near future.

Thanks!
 
  • #74
Can you post a picture of what it looks like when it has dehisced? This was a learning curve and I'll likely end up with no viable seeds.
 
  • #75
Um... the oldest fruit, which is the smallest, and the one that got bent over last week, just split. Is that the dehiscing phenomenon? Do I just keep it cool and dry? It may not have anything worthwhile, dying an untimely death.
 
  • #76
Um... the oldest fruit, which is the smallest, and the one that got bent over last week, just split. Is that the dehiscing phenomenon? Do I just keep it cool and dry? It may not have anything worthwhile, dying an untimely death.
Yes, if it's splitting then the dehiscing process has begun. I keep mine at room temperature and let them dry for several days before attempting to extract any seed.


9/21/08- Alright people! The moment you (or at least I) have been waiting for.... more pictures!!!! All of these were taken on Friday afternoon. The coin is a US quarter and is for size reference. The white paper in some of the pictures is an piece of 8.5 X 11 inches. No dogs were harmed in the taking of these pictures.

Lastly, there are quite a few pictures. I wanted to keep it to a minimum, but couldn't help myself. I cropped and resized as much as possible. I, myself have a dial-up connection and will have to wait for all of the pictures to load.

Enjoy!


-Freshly harvested fruit. You can see the green flesh is falling off, exposing the claw inside. The claw itself has not split to a significant degree:

1A.jpg



-This claw has split a bit more. It's fruit skin is dry and brittle. You can kind of see the creamy seeds inside the pod if you look hard enough:

2A.jpg



-One of my biggest claws with seed. The seed is kind of hard to see on the white paper:

3A.jpg



-Same claw. You can see inside the seed capsule where the seeds are housed. You can even see some seed up in there:

4A.jpg



-Better picture of that claw with quarter:

5A.jpg



-Twins! They began to dehisce at the same time and were on the same stem, so I harvested them together.

6A.jpg



-One of my drying boards:

7A.jpg



-Same drying board top-view. Note the different stages of the dehiscing process:

8A.jpg



-All of my drying boards spread out on my desk:

9A.jpg



-Side view:

10A.jpg



-Lucy and a claw:

11A.jpg



-Okay, this is my box that is currently housing the claws that no longer have seed. Once I take out all of the seed from a claw, the claw ends up in here. I think I'll need a bigger box later.:

12A.jpg



-Same claws from the box, except now they're playing Twister. Left foot red!:

13A.jpg



-Side view. You can see their parents providing supervision way back in the background :) :

14A.jpg



-The patch, front view:

15A.jpg



-The patch, side view:

16A.jpg



-The patch, opposite side:

17A.jpg



-Close up of #1 towards the back, and #4 in the front. You can see some of their fruit too!:

18A.jpg



-#1's stem. Pretty thick, huh?

19A.jpg



Thanks for viewing!!!
 
  • #77
Wow, this is really interesting. Hehe...Twister xD
 
  • #78
Great pictures and great educational tool! I saw what I thought were black seeds in mine as well as a bunch of white. I thought the white was due to beinhaving been bent over before it had time to develop. So I guess they are just unripened seeds and need time to darken up?
 
  • #79
I opened it up and harvested a whopping 10 seeds. They look like ugly, whitish, non-smooth, watermelon seeds. There are still a few other claws, FWIW.
 
  • #80
joosa,

Did you get these from the ICPS? Thats were i got mine, and they are COMPLETELY different! My I. lutea are the ones making 16" claws, not P. louisianica! They are making measly little 1"-6" ones! And in both species, the seeds have a hard outer black shell. The white seed you have is on the inside...very very interesting. Great looking plant btw, and nice little help tool!
 
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