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Thread: P. parviflora journal.

  1. #57
    Aklys joossa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimscott View Post
    How long does it take for the fruit to fully develop? Will it be done before the snow flies?
    Well, the fruit that is now splitting is the one that I mentioned in entry 7/7/08, so about seven weeks for that one. I wouldn't worry, there's still plenty of time.

    Jim, how big are your fruits now? Do you still have all of your plants in that planter? I am interested in knowing if potted plants will grow smaller fruit. I only have one plant that is potted and it seems to be dieing now, so I won't know if the fruit that it has had the potential to grow bigger....
    -Joel from Southern California


  2. #58
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    One parvifora has a fruit that is 2.75" long and the other, a younger one, measures 3". I also have flowering I. lutea but only one fruit is developing at the moment and it is ~1/2". I have nothing to compare the planter with but they do germinate and flower. Hopefully, this will be more than a learning experience.

  3. #59
    Aklys joossa's Avatar
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    ^Oh, your fruit size is about the same as the one that belonged to my potted plant (#10). Can you later post if they get any bigger?


    8/25/08- Some bad news rolling in. Plant #10 has died. I came home from school and found that its small fruit had fallen off. The stem was dark and shriveled. At the moment I don't know if the fruit was ripe or near-ripe. Since the fruit is still tender, I am going to leave it on the table in the sun and see what happens tomorrow.

    8/26/08- Holy smokes!!! Boy am I happy! This afternoon after getting home, I went out to check on my plants. After checking my CPs I went to check the fruit I left out in the sun (from plant #10). The entire thing had shed the fruit skin/tissue. The fruit skin came off in four portions and the claw was left! The claw is about 2.7 inches from stem to the longest claw tip. NOTE: Whenever I give claw length in the future, it will refer to the length from the claw's stem to the longest claw tip, accounting for the curve of the claw.

    Since this fruit was small, the claw itself did not have a curve. It was also less woody and less dense than I first thought it would be, again probably due to the possibility that it may be underdeveloped. Along the ventral side, the claw has a line of short and sharp spine-like projections. The claw itself is very sharp. I later opened up the claw, which was easy to do probably due to its size and due to the fact that its capsule was not dense at all.

    The claw yielded a total of 11 seeds. All of the seeds seem smaller when compared to the seed I used earlier in the season. However all of them are white and seem fine, except for their size. There was also some undeveloped seed in there that were tiny and dark in color. Obviously these are not viable.

    Secondly, I decided to harvest the claw on plant #1. The claw has now split entirely, but the fruit skin remains, although it is mostly dry and leathery to the touch. This one seems to be average size, being about 11.75 inches long. I will be keeping this claw inside and allow it to dry and to further split open. I don't want to risk leaving it outside and have any critters stealing the fruits of my labor. Later, I will open up the claw and count seed.

    Since the patch has become quite dense I decided to check closely and see if any further fruits have begun to ripen. I tried to look carefully at the lower portions of the plants, as this is where their oldest fruits are located. Remember how I posted that the huge branch on plant #1 had fallen? Well, this cleared a big area towards the rear of the patch, allowing me to get a great view of plant #2. As I searched, I took advantage of this new opening and BINGO! There it was… a huge fruit on the center stalk on plant #2 was also dehiscing. I went in for the harvest.

    As I got closer, I saw that it had split dramatically. In fact this one was multi-clawed, having four individual hooks! As I pulled the claw, the loose fruit skin fell of with ease. Again, like the fruit from plant #10 the skin came apart in four portions. As I continued to pull and twist it off the plant, the thing got my arm and gave me a good scratch. Carefully when working with these things, boys and girls you could loose and eye… or two!

    Anyway, I got it off and saw that the seed pod portion was starting to split open as well, exposing the lower seeds. The seeds were so close to the opening, that if I would had left it in the patch any longer I would have lost some of the seed. The approximate length of this claw is 12 inches. Now this one looks like the real thing. It's diabolical looking with all the signature characteristics. Its hard, woody, dark, and the claw portions are flexible unlike the claw from plant #10. I have no seed count yet as I am letting it dry out as much as possible before opening the capsule.

    As I was inspecting the claw at my desk later at night, two seeds fell out.

    Overall, I'd say this was a great day! I am going to contact Evin to see what is the best way to store the seed so I can use them for next season and of course, give some away!


    8/27/08- (morning) The claw from #1 split some more overnight. The fruit skin became so loose that it practically fell of when I handled the claw this morning. The claw from #2 also seems to have split a bit more as I can see deeper into the seed capsule.

    I did some additional web searching and found two blog sites that mention the claws. One shows how some of them are used as decorations. Overall they are both short and fun reads with great pictures. Here are the links:

    http://jsiegeldesigns.blogspot.com/2...vils-claw.html

    http://pudgeduck.blogspot.com/2008/02/devils-claw.html


    I want to get some new pictures of the patch and the new claws. So look out for them some time in the near future!

    Thanks!
    -Joel
    -Joel from Southern California


  4. #60
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    The smaller, and older fruit doesn't have a claw. It just looks like a gourd. The other fruit seems to have the classic look to it. still quite green, with some red.

  5. #61
    Aklys joossa's Avatar
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    8/28/08- Today I harvested two more claws. One from plant #4 and another from #1.

    I have acquired some very helpful info about harvesting and seed storage from the Devil's Claw master herself, allegedhuman (Evin). She gave me permission to post part of her PM in this thread. I found it very insightful:

    Usually I pick a few of the nicest, longest, seed pods once they start to shed their outer green fleshy coat but before the hard woody pod starts to split so I make sure I do not lose those seeds if they split open early and spill all over the ground. I keep the pods in a concrete building of ours outdoors and since they usually start to reach this stage in fall the building is rather cool as they finish drying and finally split open on their own then I can pick all the seeds out.

    If I have a lot of smaller pods that are not as impressive to collect for next year or some late season pods I sometimes even leave them on the plant until really late fall after frost kills the plant and then throw the pods in a bucket in the building to pick seeds out whenever I have the time once they have finished curing.

    Either way, the seeds don't seem to matter which way I harvest them as long as they are mature and no longer increasing in size. I just like to wait until they shed the green coat so I am sure they are completely mature, especially if the pod is a really evil looking large one so I am sure to save viable seeds from that wicked pod for next year.

    Once I have separated the seeds I usually put them in a zip-lock baggie and store them in the cool basement with our other garden seeds like pumpkins, watermelons, etc. I have never tried storing them in the fridge, I think my family would have been less than pleased with that. I don't know if storing them in the fridge would increase their germination, although I have never had much of a problem with germination and the storage method I have used so far since I keep them cool and dry in the basement.

    I don't know how much digging out of seeds you have done yet already but make sure you dig all of them out. There are some in the hollow cavity between the 4 prongs that can be easily shaken out or easily poked free but then there are alot more hidden behind tissue layers along the outer walls of the pod. I like to use a pokect knife to dig those out ( but then again that just may be because I like to play with sharp pointy things... ) Not like you NEED to get each and every seed because you won't have many based on the amount and size of your plants, but otherwise if you go to compost the seed pods or whatever they will reseed ALL OVER and your entire gardens will become infested with them.

    Another thing to note is that I often separate seeds into "perfect, normal creamy to brown" and "kinda off-color gray" sets and store them separately in case the grey "maybe moldy ones" actually did have mold issues and would spread and cause problems for all the seeds. Apparently Crissytal, who also got some seeds, has a problem with some black and blue speckles which may be mold on some of her seeds when she has been harvesting some of hers. So that is just something else to possibly keep in mind when harvesting seeds.

    ~Evin
    Thanks again Evin!
    -Joel from Southern California


  6. #62
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing the tips! This is all new to me. I actually have a developing Ibicella lutea fruit as well. The Ibicella produces more flowers than the Probiscidae.

  7. #63
    Aklys joossa's Avatar
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    9/5/08- Well it's September! Since my last post I have harvested several claws and have gotten the gist of the dehiscing and harvesting process.

    Before I go on, I would like to clear up some terminology. Now, this is MY personal use of the words and is by no means official. I am posting this to clear up possible ambiguity between my use of the terms fruit and claw within my posts and the data tables:

    Fruit: The immediate product of a successful pollination. Most importantly, a fruit still contains the fleshy, green tissue or skin.
    Claw: This is the hard, woody "core" of the fruit that is left after the fruit ripens and sheds its green "skin". The claw also houses the seeds.

    Now that that's out of the way….
    Once mature, the fruit skin will begin to split. Most of the time the first split occurs on the distal end of the fruit. Sometimes, some fruit will show a split toward the top, right up near the stem. If the split appears here it is very likely that the distal end has already formed a split. Once either or both of these splits become apparent on a certain fruit, I harvest it. Finally, like Evin suggested, I leave them inside at room temperature and let them finish dehiscing, which occurs quite rapidly… within two days at times.

    A couple days ago, I experienced a mold issue with one of the claws. Earlier, I believed that it would be okay if I allowed a fruit to remain on its respective plant until it completely shed its fleshy skin. After dropping its "skin" I would go on to harvest. Well, I tried this system on a certain fruit. I let it do its thing and then went in for the harvest. I later inspected it and found a nasty surprise. Mold had made its way into the seed capsule of the claw. It was the white-fuzzy mold, and had gotten all the way up inside the capsule and got to all of the seeds. Since this claw was near the ground, I assumed the moisture/water got to it and allowed the mold to grow. Because of all of this, I now harvest fruits using the method mentioned in the paragraph above, not letting moisture come in contact with the pod or seeds.

    Now onto seed collection… I let the claw COMPLETELY dry out before trying to pry out the seeds. Once given enough time, I use a dissecting probe and remove the seeds from the claw. Then I spread the seeds out on a paper towel and leave them out in room temperature for a couple days, giving them plenty of time to dry out (although they already seem dry). Finally, I follow Evin's advice and divide them up, separating the good-looking, healthy ones from the darker deformed ones and place them in a baggie.

    The claws are really alien looking. I am especially fond of the large ones that have four hooks. My longest claw marks in at around 14.5 inches and is from plant #2. In addition, the highest seed yield from a claw is 81 seeds, again from plant #2. Keep in mind that there are many more claws coming in daily, as well as the fact that I have had the opportunity to count the seeds from only a handful of claws.

    My plants are still prolific and are still growing and sending up many flowers. I find myself dedicating 15 to 20 minutes daily just for pollination. I pollinate first, then harvest, and then water. All of this is done at around 6:30PM, a little before sundown.

    Last but not least, my data table. Please note that I have eliminated some of the data columns and added some more relevant ones. I deleted both the "height and diameter of plant" columns because of the wind damage. Since many of the tallest branches where bent drastically and ended up literally on top of other plants, height became irrelevant. Also, since the patch has become so dense I can no longer estimate the number of fruit on each plant, let alone note which ones belong to what plant. Thus, I also eliminated the "number of fruit currently on plant" column. Also, since it is still unknown to me whether or not the one fruit from plant #10 was ripe or not at the time #10 died, I decided to mark some of its data as outliers and pointed to entry 8/26/08. Lastly, if you see that I have harvested a claw from a certain plant, but have no data under average seed yield or claw length for that plant, then this indicates that the claw(s) is still drying or that I have not had the chance to count or measure. Pretty obvious…

    Enjoy and thanks for reading :
    -Joel from Southern California


  8. #64
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    14.5 "? Man, mine have a long way to go... and I doubt I'll ever see anything close to that. I borrowed a co-worker's camera and hope to have pictures of fruit and flower.

    Thanks for the clarification. I am very new to this. Next year I will use a 5 gallon bucket.

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