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Proboscidea parviflora Seeds Tan & Black

jimscott

Tropical Fish Enthusiast
I waited until the fruits dehisced before harvesting. Why are most of the seeds tan while some are black?

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White is a culivated variety from what I can tell. Black is the typical color. Select the white!
 
black ones might be Ibicella lutea
 
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They're all P. parviflora.. or so I thought.
 
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Jimscott, I bought both types of seeds - tan (P. parviflora) and black (I. lutea). Did you have different coloured flowers i.e. one pink and one yellow?

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Jimscott,
The plant is actually: Proboscidea parviflora, see CP Database.

Editorial comments: Whenever beginning a topic which introduces a new genus, it is nomenclatural etiquette to spell out the genus name, at least the first time it is used in that communication. In this case I edited it into the topic title. I do this mostly to help any latecomers to the topic or even latecomers to CP, so they can find this topic easier in a search, or to make it easier to understand which plants are being discussed.
 
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They were all supposed to be P. parviflora. I've got a few flower pictures but ouldn't tell ya what went with what plant or what claw. Right now I can't get Photobucket to open up. I'll try agin later.

---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------

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Very nice photos - even though they are only proto-carnivorous they sure are fascinating plants, Proboscidea althaeifolia grows wild near my house (but only after lots of Summer rain). With their bright yellow flowers it is easy to see them even while driving by at 50 MPH. I understand that Proboscidea parviflora is also a local native, but it is much harder to locate with its darker colored flowers. Our local native seed store carries many varieties, some that have been developed by local natives.

I do not know precisely why the seed in your pods varies in color. I have harvested seed of Proboscidea althaeifolia and had not noticed them having seed with different colored seed coats. I found an online article that discusses the possible reasons for the different seed colors.

BTW, I believe the native peoples primarily cultivate these plants for their nutritious and edible seeds and for use of the dried seedpods for basket weaving.

Jimscott, were you able to grow them outside in your climate? If so, I hope they don't get invasive.

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I mentioned how a local store carries native seeds including various Devil's Claws. This is a link to their Devil's Claw page.
 
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I tried indoors a couple years ago. They were stunted. I tried them outside, in a variety of places, including buckets and directly in the ground. Th ones in the buckets were bigger than the ons indoors, but the ones that were sown directly in the ground did the best. They may not have been quite as comfortable or big as theit natural habitat, but I was pleased at one plant in particular. It was over 4' in diameter and the pods were a good 9" long. There' no way that they could be invasive, here. They die out in October, due to our cold climate.

So do I indeed have 2 species?
 
  • #10
The may be reverting back to their wild form/characterisitcs. I have been told that the black color indicates the presence of germination inhibitors (which is present in most wild populations). White seed lack germination inhibitors and are therefore easier to grow (hence the development/domestication of the white seed variety of Proboscidea species).

I have never gotten black seed from my white seed variety plants. However, some of my plants have produced the typical 2-pronged seed pods, which is the norm for wild populations instead of 4 prongs, which is what they were originally selected for. Again, this may simply be just them reverting back to their origins.

Happy Thanksgiving! :awesome:
 
  • #11
How about the flower pictures? do those indicate diffeent species or just how the caera translated them at that time, under those conditions?
 
  • #12
jimscott,
Interesting question about possible photographic variations. Of course photographic techniques could cause the very same flower to appear with the differences exibited by the two photos you posted. It could be intentional or accidental. Or they could illustrate natural variation in that species, or even show possibly subspecies status, or just flowers of different ages/different microenvironments. I am going to do a little more research to answer these questions for myself, and I will share them with terraforums, too.

In this link to Proboscidea parviflora, it shows two flowers with differences in their colors and patterns. Perhaps this species has a wide variation in its flowers. I hope to find out definitively.

I have not grown any of this species, yet, even though they are native to my area. If I were more familiar with this species and its natural variation, I could, most likely answer your question with more cerainty. I have already obtained seed of this species from the "Native Seed | S.E.A.R.C.H.". I will plant some, this next Spring, I will also plan to stop at the nearby ranger station to see if they have more information on how to locate the plant in the wild.

Your question has gotten my interest. I think, it should be one genus of proto-carnivorous plant I should be able to grow with minimal effort. It looks to be a quite attractive plant, and I already know I like the taste and nutrition of the seeds - though it takes quite an effort to extract them from the seedpods without getting hooked wickedly by the claws (of course I didn't completely escape that curse, while I was extracting seed myself). I appreciate the determination and skill illustrated by your first photo in this thread.
 
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Joel: As far as I remember, all of the plants that germinated came from the seeds you sent, which represent just the one species of "devil claw".

Joesph: Thanks for the feedback. The reason why I brought up the flowers is that I take several pictures, from a variety of angles, distances, settings, and lighting, in the hopes I can salvage sme decent / clea pictures. I do indeed have color variety, not only within a given species, but from the sam plant. You should see different shades an tints that emanate from the pygmy sundew and the Byblis liniflora flowers!
 
  • #14
It perfectly normal to for them to show color differences in the flowers, Jim. Here are some of mine that came from the same plant:
 
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So do you think they are all parvulflora and not any I. lutea mixed in?
 
  • #16
So do you think they are all parvulflora and not any I. lutea mixed in?

Yup. I don't see how they would have any I. lutea mixed in if you didn't have I. lutea around to begin with (right?). In addition, I have not seen or found any concrete evidence that proves that Proboscidea and Ibicella can hybridize, although I would certainly love to.

Just because the seeds are black does not mean they are of Ibicella. There are, after all, lots more species and varieties of black-seed Proboscidea, one of them being the origins of the Hohokamiana variety that you have there.


Cheers!
 
  • #17
Hey, I've heard a rumor that Ibicella smell like B.O. Do they?
 
  • #18
Okay..... I'm convinced.
 
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