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Thread: Jungle Harvested N. viking seeds on eBay

  1. #17

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    SO in your mind, if taking seed is detrimental to a population (it isn't), I'll go out on a limb and say you wouldn't agree with taking plants (especially mature) out of the wild. In that case, what other practices do you recommend for getting neps into cultivation? If you're against seed collection, you're out of options.

    By the way, I never claimed you were a fanatic. Insinuated, yes. People here and on CPUK for that matter are quick to jump at something like this, with little to (more often than not) no knowledge of the situation as a whole. Its easy to say "someone's doing something illegal!", fly off the handle, and jump on the hoopin' and hollerin' bandwagon. Its harder to actually look at facts, figures, and make an informed judgement on the fact that 1 person selling seeds on eBay is going to have absolutely no effect on the population as a whole. No one here knows if the guy even broke any laws, obviously there is admittance that he may just be doing it to increase sales. Assuming he is breaking a law though, it would be better for the 1 person that found it to report it if they felt necessary (not that its really anyone's business but the proper authorities anyway) to the proper authorities, and leave it at that. Making a topic about it where everyone dons a "holier (more conservationist?) than thou" attitude, and jumps in saying "yeah! thats wrong!" will never accomplish anything, and is in fact entirely pointless.
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
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  2. #18

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    the guy is actually increasing genetic diversity by getting seeds. Most plants we grow are clones, and are thus pretty limited genetically.

    How expensive do you think the first seed grown clipeatas will be? Exactly.
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5aCUNE4Z8
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  3. #19

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    Errrr.................
    A well known nurser owner
    bought from that joker,
    Yes if you really want to know
    spend a few hours on CPUK
    Please no PMs on the name

  4. #20
    Kung Fu Fighting! NeciFiX's Avatar
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    Phissionkorps,

    I was asking a simple question.

    He obviously has plenty of money.

    I seem to remember when a bunch of CP Enthusiasts got the "okay" to go harvest a few very rare Pinguicula seed pods, turns out they stomped all over the plants and took almost all of the seed pots, save very few, I suppose that's not a big deal since 2% will survive anyways. [/sarcasm]

    I don't want to cause any fights but seriously, "oh, it's okay to only sell once", lets say he ONLY sells these ONCE and NEVER again, well then, it may have ruined the chance for a few more plants but won't decimate the entire population, but, that's probably not the case, the case with the Pinguicula is the most likely thing to happen.
    - NeciFiX

  5. #21
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    I would think that the 2% wild survival rate would be a strong argument for leaving seed pods in the wild. With such a low survival rate wouldn't that make it more important to leave pods in the wild?

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  6. #22

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    The thing about the guy having money or not: I was making a statement that many people in that area earn maybe $500 a year, and therefore, a lot of locals do collect plants like neps and others in order to feed themselves. Apparently this isn't one of those cases, which is fine; I was simply stating most of the persons in that area are subject to those conditions. And about the guy being "rich" because he has the internet: internet is free at the library, and just because you have access to a computer doesn't mean you "obviously have plenty of money".

    Pinguicula and Nepenthes have different germination/survival rates in the wild. The 2% quoted is for neps only.

    Like I said, if you understand Nepenthes population dynamics, you will see that someone collecting seed will not interfere with the population as a whole unless they are harvesting all or nearly all of the seed.


    EDIT to answer xvart:
    Of course not. If a female has a seed set of 1000, and only 2% germinate, you're going to get 20 seedlings, not 20 individuals. Out of those 20 individuals, maybe 3-5 will make it to maturity. If you collect 400 seed (a lot), the probability even then of getting one of the "plants" that would eventually make it to maturity is surprizingly low. Even if you did, and you get 19 seedlings in the wild, from that, you're still going to get about 3-5 eventual mature individuals.
    In terms of conservation, which I believe is an issue for LOCALS, collecting seed and growing it out, at least for a few months, then replanting it in the habitat is the only probable and logical solution. Not only is that solution the easiest and most cost effective (because its free except for the labor and a few jelly jars to keep soil in), but you strengthen the wild population considerably, greatly increase genetic diversity, and by increasing the wild population, lower the "rarity", and therefore the price these plants will bring, and ergo the pressure for them to be collected; regardless of the legality of collection.
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5aCUNE4Z8
    ^^^Newest vid

  7. #23
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    I agree, for the conservation minded locals, at least. The odds of the seeds being sold on ebay being replaced back into the wild for conservation purposes is very low, if not nil. I would think that for certain extremely endangered species, one or two seed pods can be a big deal, even if they only yield one or two seedlings from a seed set of 1000.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  8. #24

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    "People have been wild collecting and utilizing plants since the beginning of people."

    Yes, and look at the number of species that are extinct or endangered -especially the tropical hardwood trees.

    "I highly doubt this guy collecting seed, even to a greater extent, is going to cause some sort of catastrophe, as you are making it out to seem. Please educate yourself on the probabily of nep seed becoming a mature individual in the wild, and please please learn a thing or two about population dynamics."

    1) Well, now that we have your assurance I feel better.
    2) I do know a thing or two about population dynamics
    3) Your statistical anaysis of the situation is the most convoluted logic I have seen recently - the odds of collecting one of the seeds that would make it to maturity is low so its ok to collect seeds might work if there is only 1 collector involved - are you gauranteeing that there are not hundreds of collectors and all of the "wild seeds will not be taken?

    "The only thing that possibly needs to be changed for long term survival of a species is the circulation of MORE seed and MORE seedgrown plants."

    I couldn't agree more - how about using the material that is already in cultivation. Now before you start with the genetic diversity crap - unless the material is going to be replanted in the wild from personal collections (not necessarily a viable or good idea) genetic diversity is not an issue. Most people grow a plant because it looks nice, not to do a DNA profile to make sure its genetic make-up is up to par.

    "Here's a pretty good thread to start, including commentary by quite a few experts:
    http://pitcherplants.proboards34.com...ead=1182557621
    If you want to continue to masquerade as an expert in regard to these topics, please start posting in that forum."

    I looked at the link you provided, all I saw was a bunch of individuals argueing their personal points of view - not 1 unified vision about the collection of material.

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