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Thread: Native Carnivores Introduced Into Suitable Habitat

  1. #9
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    To play Devil's Advocate:

    1) Simply observing that D. intermedia can be found within 10 miles of the site is no guarantee that the D. intermedia population originated from there. D. intermedia is basically a wetlands plant and migratory wetland fowl can travel hundreds to thousands of miles. The populations of D. anglica in Hawaii are thought to have been introduced by waterfowl. And the Dionaea muscipula in the Hosford Bog, FL are thought to have been introduced by waterfowl although it has been said Jimmy Northrop introduced them.

    2) The area may be part of a study of the natural accession of wildlife. Invaluable data for habitat restoration. Your introductions may invalidate such a study.

    3) What starts out as "ethical" introductions could turn quickly into an ecological nightmare as the area becomes a dumping ground for Carnivorous Plants. Such has happened to areas like Butterfly Valley and the Albion Bog in CA.
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

  2. #10
    Cthulhu138's Avatar
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    1) I never said that the D.intermedia "originated" there. None of the plants there originated there. It was a white pine woodland and 50 feet higher in elevation 20 years ago. The entire location sits in the bottom of a man made bowl which I explained in the original post. All the bog plants in the area minus the ones I put there were deposited by natural means, more than likely... waterfowl.

    2) The only thing being studied in the area is teenage drinking, marijuana growing, dirtbike riding and, target practice.

    3) "Ecological nightmare" Now, come on..... let's try not to get carried away here.

  3. #11
    An orchid fancier with a CP problem chibae's Avatar
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    Just leads the mind to wonder what scientists fifty or more years from now are going to think about the wildly different genetic material found in your bog from the surronding areas. I do realize that this is a manmade bog in that nature found a way to reclaim the site. I also realize that the plants which showed up on their own did most likely come from birds, or storms. Orchids not native to Florida show up growing there five to ten years (giving them time to mature and flower) after a hurricane helped blow seeds in from the islands. I have read about the issues with "foreign" populations of purps being reintroduced to already established bogs decades before genetic diversity was even thought of.

    I'm not commenting on the ethics or ecological impacts. Just picturing folks, decades form now, thinking this had always been a natural bog and getting very confused.
    It's a tough life being a Sarracenia farmer
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  4. #12
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    On the surface this looks like a great idea. You said you collected the seeds/plants all locally. The rule I usually go by is can the plant be somehow transported to the new site naturally. I think that if they all came from within 10 miles, it's easy to imagine that they were transported down river by a flood or transported by birds. So as far as I'm concerned it would be ok to introduce local plants there.

    As I said on the surface this looks like a good idea, so lets go a little deeper. My first question is how did you get the plants. Apparently you collected them from the wild. Did you collect them legally? I don't know the laws in NH. Maybe you spent the time to research the local and state laws regarding collection, if you didn't you can open yourself up to a lot of legal problems.

    My second question is, what did you do with the plants after you collected them. Did you plant them in peat and grow them at your house for awhile? If you did, how will you be sure that you are not introducing an invasive species or disease that was in the peat?

    My third question is who owns the land you are putting the plants on? How do they feel about what you are doing? They could probably file charges against you.

    You have to be careful with these things, you can do way more harm than good or you can get yourself into a lot of trouble.

  5. #13
    Cthulhu138's Avatar
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    The Utricularia grow wild on my mother's property down the street from the site. The Sarracenia purpurea were rescued from a construction site about 12 years ago and transplanted into a bog on my mother's property where they've been growing ever since. It was their seed that was used to populate the area. The Drosera were already there by some natural means, more than likely spread by waterfowl.

    The land is owned by a construction company, the owners of which were friends with my father. The land is completely unusable to them (or anyone else) due to the wetland laws in NH. I have spoken to them about this and they have no intentions on using the land for any purpose nor do they plan to sell it any time in the future.

  6. #14
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    If all that you said is true, I don't have a problem with this. I would suggest that you maintain paperwork to protect yourself if a problem ever came up. I would also suggest that you contact a local chapter of an organisation like The Nature Conservancy to help with your project and to offer advice.

    Also if there are any other people considering doing something similar, you should contact TNC or some other organisation that specialize in this sort of thing BEFORE you start.

  7. #15
    sarracenia_X's Avatar
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    i dont get why anyone would be opposed to introducing these plants, when they have said themselves that sometimes they will be naturally introduced by waterfowl. are the drosera angelica Hawii an invasive spicies just because they were introduced there? not in my opinion.. doesnt introduction into new habitats also happen in nature? yes, it does. and when it happens, the plants slowly adapt to their new area, and eventually become a new 'native' species, even though they originated elsewhere. i do not think, however that we should use this as an excuse to dump random CPs into any old bog, even if they do eventually naturalize. this is a good idea in my opinion, because the plants were collected locally.

  8. #16
    Lotsa blue bluemax's Avatar
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    Cthulhu138:
    I too, come from a background of restoration and revegetation of native species so I have been interested to see what you have done and how. I hope any others who might try something similar do it with as much consideration and forethought as you have. We all know that this has often not been the case. I can't see what harm could've been done and the results closely mimic nature. Nice.
    - Mark

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