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Thread: Petition to stop bulldozing in the Borneo Rainforest

  1. #9
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    As much as I agree in theory, in practice interfering in the affairs of a foreign country is a sticky situation. How many residents of India would be willing to sign a petition trying to force us to stop eating cows?
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  2. #10
    Confused Magikarp fdfederation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    As much as I agree in theory, in practice interfering in the affairs of a foreign country is a sticky situation. How many residents of India would be willing to sign a petition trying to force us to stop eating cows?
    Well, cattle ranching can have a negative effect on the environment, especially in regions where grazing is not well managed. Lol

  3. #11
    I Am the Terror Of the Night! NemJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    As much as I agree in theory, in practice interfering in the affairs of a foreign country is a sticky situation. How many residents of India would be willing to sign a petition trying to force us to stop eating cows?
    This indeed is very true, however it doesnt make it right. Even though its a different country
    Doesnt mean that people should give up and not defend it. People are still fighting for the
    Amazonian rainforest regardless of their origin and country nationality.

    You must fight for what you love and want protected.
    Remember..once its gone, its gone forever. With that in mind, SOMETHING must
    Be put in place to protect the forest. They will keep destroying untill nothing is left.

  4. #12
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    As long as the people who live there see only destructive ways to earn a living from a forest, the only way to keep them from destroying it is by force. It's bad enough for a government to use force against its citizens. Even in the most repressive regimes ha e to answer to their citizens on some level. The super- national solutions you seem to be espousing eliminate the feedback loop, and are rooted in elitism. Until the residents of the area begin to see sustainable uses for the forest, someone is going to be committing a "crime" in someone's eyes. I'd rather see that "crime" be people trying to support their families rather than a government telling them they can't support their families. Of course the ideal outcome is that the residents of the area begin to think in longer terms regarding the use of the resource.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  5. #13
    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    The super- national solutions you seem to be espousing eliminate the feedback loop, and are rooted in elitism. Until the residents of the area begin to see sustainable uses for the forest, someone is going to be committing a "crime" in someone's eyes.
    Looking at the world through First World Glasses isn't going to lead to any meaningful solutions.

  6. #14
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whimgrinder View Post
    Looking at the world through First World Glasses isn't going to lead to any meaningful solutions.
    It isn't a matter of which world one looks at the problem from. It's simply an exercise in chess. In chess the player able to see most accurately into the future wins. But one first has to have a goal in mind, and execute a coherent strategy to achieve that goal. Simplistic solutions inevitably lead to unintended consequences. One of which is usually losing the game. For instance if simply passing laws protecting them really worked there would be a lot more White Rhinos than there currently are. But as long as people who live around them think a dead rhino is more valuable than a live one, they'll keep making more dead ones than live ones. That's an aspect of human nature common to all worlds.
    Last edited by SubRosa; 12-01-2014 at 10:09 AM.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

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    Sorry, but if you think this is "people trying to support their families", then you might want to look closer. This is nothing more than big (foreign) multinationals making a deal with the Indonesian government to hack up the rainforest. If anything, anybody living there now will have to get the hell out. The only winners here are the companies and the Indonesian government. You might argue that the money will flow to the Indonesian people, but I'm guessing there won't be a lot left after it has passed through the top layers...

    So yes, you really should sign this, and try to stop another couple of (Australian) multinationals abusing our rainforest. Our rainforest, because it might be located in Indonesia, but it should in my opinion be listed as a world property and protected by everyone.

  8. #16
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thijso View Post
    Sorry, but if you think this is "people trying to support their families", then you might want to look closer. This is nothing more than big (foreign) multinationals making a deal with the Indonesian government to hack up the rainforest. If anything, anybody living there now will have to get the hell out. The only winners here are the companies and the Indonesian government. You might argue that the money will flow to the Indonesian people, but I'm guessing there won't be a lot left after it has passed through the top layers...

    So yes, you really should sign this, and try to stop another couple of (Australian) multinationals abusing our rainforest. Our rainforest, because it might be located in Indonesia, but it should in my opinion be listed as a world property and protected by everyone.
    I guess we have different definitions of the words "sovereignty" and "mine".
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

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