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Thread: Massive poaching in apalachicola nation forest

  1. #17
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    I was just thinking on this and while I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to act this way I want to make a post here letting everyone know that while talk of wanting to do something to re-establish the population is fine ABSOLUTELY NO ONE should take it upon themselves to go to this site and attempt to harvest any remaining plants or seeds. If this site has been compromised then it should be left for organized groups with pre-existing programs to look into restoring the site and any individuals who might go and harvest material or seed with the best of intentions would only screw the situation up more.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

    See You Space Cowboy

    actagggcagtgatatcccattggtacatggcaaattagcctcatgat
    Hagerstown, Maryland

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  2. #18

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    CP listserve message
    Looks like there is some bad news...

  3. #19
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    I just recieved this message from the ABG. It is from a contact they have in the area. I also recieved a message from Jim saying he might be confused about the location of the site he was looking at and that it might not be the real one we are all concerned about. Jim will be checking this weekend based on conversations with a couple other people.

    As it stands the main site is still intact so again I emphasize that NO ONE should even think of going down and collecting material in the interest of saving the site. To do so would make you the poacher.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I'm not sure if this is the "big site" in Sumatra about XXX yards north of the
    tower on the East side of Hwy XXX. At this particular site there is no ditch
    to cross to get to the plants. i was down there 3 weeks ago and saw
    well over a thousand plants (all RTF) - enough that two dumptrucks could not have
    carried them away. i'll be going back down in 2 weeks, so I can check the
    site out again. i get down there about 4 times a year (for the past 6 years)
    and I have yet to see one incidence of poaching in all this time at approximately
    7-8 flava sites that I visit; however, there are anecdotal reports of apparent dig
    holes observed over the years. I think (hope) there may be some confusion about
    site location - either on my part or Jim's.

    I'm not sure if Jim is referring to another smaller red tube site in this area that
    I am not aware of - but generally all variants of RTF are present at approximately
    4 sites for this variety that i know about. Feel free to forward this email.


    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

    See You Space Cowboy

    actagggcagtgatatcccattggtacatggcaaattagcctcatgat
    Hagerstown, Maryland

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    actagggcagtgatatcccattggtacatggcaaattagcctcatgat

  4. #20
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    Last year was probably one of the best years to see Sarracenias in the SE US because, of adequate precipitation. Most years, including this year, many plants in the field look stressed. Some plants even return to a dormant state, only to recover when conditions are optimal. Only by visiting a site several different times per year for several years, can you begin to appreciate the remarkable adaptation of these plants.
    It's nice to see concern for these plants but, it almost seems like the response to this is "over-reaction" when all the facts aren't known. A fews years ago there was mention of a couple of sites in Alabama that were "poached" of their alatas. The ICPS even had mention of this on their website. That year was an especially severe drought. I wonder if the plants simply didn't respond to the environment and return to a state of dormancy. Perhaps the very next year, the alatas magically returned when the conditions returned to normal.
    I don't question that poaching occurs but, I do question the scale. I've visited many sites throughout the SE US, and have yet to find the large scale poaching that we fear. Although, I have come across many sites that are totally destroyed due to habitat destruction. I have seen this more times than I want to remember. BTW, there was mention earlier this year of the Yellow River site being sprayed with herbicide. Has this been confirmed? If so, to what extent?
    I only make these comments because, this enthusiasm should be directed to the real threats these plants face. This is the first step in saving them. Perhaps someone could offer their opinion of what these threats are. I feel the threat is almost entirely from habitat destruction. Just my opinion.
    imduff

  5. #21

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    Let's hope that's true Imduff. I find it hard to believe that poaching could be that extensive. Believe me, I pray it is only drought, and that the plants will return in a better season, but if it is true, then a massive crime has occurred.

    Let's just wait for the investigation and report, and also follow Pyro's good advice.

    Also I agree, habitat destruction is the real problem, but if nothing has been done to stop this in 50 years, do you think there is really any hope of saving the remainder of the 5% that is left? The time to preserve is now, while there is still a chance of putting something in the bank. I never used to feel this way, but now what else is there that we can do?

    I just hope the NASC effort works, and that an ethical collection can be made, overseen by those who know more than I do about it. One thing is certain, I am not going out to pluck any plants since I don't know what I am doing.

    Ahhh, I get a headache whenever I read this thread! I am weary of fretting over it, and of feeling helpless on all fronts.
    There is no winning this game I fear.
    "Grow More, Share More"

  6. #22

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    Imduff makes some very good points and I take responsibility for raising the cry but as a CP friend says best to err on the 'cry wolf' side. If nothing more it has opened the discussion on the NASC and what can be done. It seems that the site in question is not the 'Famed Red Tube' site but one adjacent to it off a side road, which makes it eaiser to poach unseen.

    And the reports of the Yellow River site being wiped out are indeed true as Jim Miller and myself visited the site personally last Septmeber. Not a single plant was left. There was not so much as a Drosera to to be seen. I was sick. We visited several other sites that seemed and I repeat 'seemed' in peril. Progress is as certain as taxes and death. It is not a matter of if but when.
    I remain a man obsessed with a genus
    Brooks

  7. #23
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    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/mad.gif[/img] That sucks,people will never understand.


    Jerry

  8. #24

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    Just for clarifacation, the Yellow River site was sprayed with herbicide by the power company that is why the eradication was so complete. On the up side, I was sent some seeds from someone who has some from that site. All is not lost.
    I remain a man obsessed with a genus
    Brooks

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