Endler's Livebearer

[jimscott]

Anyone know anything about the Endler's Livebearer?

 

[Clint]

Reject guppies

 

[Crissytal]

I used to raise them. They were rediscovered by John Endler in 1975 and come from Venezuela. They are said to closely resemble the wild guppy, but I have personally never seen a 'true' wild guppy. They are just as easy to keep as the normal guppy and will actively interbreed with them if kept in the same tank. They are cute little fish.

Here's a picture of some that I used to keep. They were the 'swordtail' variety.

 

[elgecko]

IIRC Endler's Livebearer are said to be extinct in the wild.

Do not breed guppies to Endler's Livebearer. Keep there strains separate, they are different.

 

[Crissytal]

Thanks elgecko. I failed to mention about them being extinct in the wild. I was also very careful to keep them separate from guppies as well. In my opinion, the natural coloring of Endler's is much prettier than an Endler/guppy cross. There seem to be slight variants in 'pure Endler' coloring. I had some that looked quite a bit different than the ones I posted above; they were more red than orange, and displayed a lot more black coloring. They also didn't have the orange in their tails.

Crystal

 

[Clint]

Extict in the wild? That's horrible!!!!

That makes me want some just for novelty.

 

[StifflerMichael]

I personally don't have Endler's, but I have wanted some for a while now. I like the fact that they are not fancy guppies, with all that fancy coloration and different fin shapes, etc. (please no offense to any fancy guppy enthusiasts). IMO, they are pretty and colorful in their own, natural way. I never see non-fancy guppies (ie wild-type) in the stores around here, just the fancies.

You're not supposed to allow them to breed with other guppies. Many people will call them "guppies with big egos"...but many others say they are distinct from other guppies.

 

[elgecko]

The one fish club I attend meetings, about once every other year, have some people how raise Endler's.

StifflerMichael,
Feeder guppies = non fancy guppies.

 

[Nflytrap]

Last I heard they are not extinct in the wild(a few other fish in the hobby are though) but I believe that the site they were discovered in is now a landfill. People are still trying to define what an Endlers livebearer is in any case.

 

[jimscott]

The reason why I bring it up is that I was at Walmart and had a chance meeting with one of my co-workers (Home Depot), in the fish department. She mentioned having some of these fish and I was like, "what?" "Never heard of them". She had them mate with her own fancy guppies. I have since done a Google on them and it is believed that they are very related to guppies, but somehwhere down the road, they got isolated. Then you have what Cryssytal related. Apparently, they can mate with a regular guppy and produce offspring, but those offspring are sterile... so I have read. Pretty neat looking males, especially the orange and the swordtail!

 

[Crissytal]

I've personally never heard of an Endler/guppy hybrid being sterile. I have seen all kinds of Endler mutations for sell on Aquabid.com. Some of the color varieties couldn't be reached without crossing with guppies. The two color morphs that I raised were both from reputable people, and were stated to be 'pure' strains with no guppy crossing. I'm guessing it's possible that different isolated groups of these fish could vary in color?

 

[jimscott]

I looked through a few sites and found this one to be comprehensive:

Endler's Livebearer Site

This was the paragraph I read:

Quote[/b] ]Genealogy - The Endler's Livebearer is very close to the guppy, poecilia reticulata, and can produce offspring with the common guppy. However, these offspring are not fertile, and therefore, by definition, the Endler's is NOT of the same species as the guppy, as many believe. The Endler's probably evolved divergently from the Guppy species, but must have become isolated at some point, and through divergent evolution became too genetically different from the guppy for interbreeding. It could also have been a spontaneous mutation in one guppy's reproductive stem cells, which was parent to all of the fry in one drop. This drop would create a new line far enough from the guppy to be a new species. Endler's have not been assigned a species name, and are therefore called "poecilia sp." Either way; the Endler's is nearly identical to the guppy with regards to care. Overall, I think the Endler's livebearer is a great fish, worth a dedicated species tank. A stable breeding colony is easily created from only 3 pairs, they will fill any tank given time, as well as replacing all of their losses. They are absolutely enthralling to watch and have gorgeous coloration. If you can get a hold of these I would definitely invest, and Clint has some available. I got mine from him and they arrived (and stayed) in great condition. They are of the peacock variety, which is, in my opinion, the best looking of the endlers. See his Stock Shop to order, and his article for info on them. Nick also has some fry available in his Stock Shop.

Quote[/b] ]I'm guessing it's possible that different isolated groups of these fish could vary in color?

I guess it just depended upon the traits that were in existence in that population that got isolated. It's like one step beyond human populations that get isolated on a continent... but at least with the human ones, they haven't diverged enough such that they are a different species / cannot produce viable offspring. But then again, that's looking at modern human populations and not the ones that have become extinct.

 

[biggun110]

Hello Everyone, especially Nflytrap,

   I'm finally back after the move from hell. Don't even ask just a case of the best laid plans of mice and men. Still no tanks going yet but I am planning. It looks like I can fit 8 30's where I'm at now. I need to get some nice stands built first. Now, what do I keep -- ugh.

  I believe Endler's have a species name but are still considered a guppy population by some. I raised the pure article for years and am friends with the man who re-collected them in the 90's and early 2000's -- Armando Pou in Miami. Armando has many forms. They will cross with guppies and produce fertile fry. Check the site for Swampriveraquatics for loads of Endler's. They are a gorgeous fish and a snap to keep.

Bobby

 

[jimscott]

Welcome back! Yesterday my co-worker offered some of them to me; she is trying to get rid of them! I have no fishtank hardware to set them up, but maybe the people at the churchschool that currently has a goldfish in a tank, would let me toss some in there.

Can't say I have any experience with them, but according to the one expert, the fry produced from the cross are sterile. Whaddy do when two experts cite contradictory results?