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Thread: Losses

  1. #17
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    I agree with Biggun..
    more frequent water changes and less each time.
    10% a week would be ideal, but 25% every 2 weeks is more practical..

    Thats what I do with my planted tank..25% every 2 weeks.

    also, those "pro fishkeepers" are simply wrong! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
    Fish can go a solid week without eating and be perfectly fine, so why would they "require" twice a day?
    My fish (all the fish, Angelfish, Discus, SAE's, tetras, otto cats and a pleco) have been getting one meal a day for several years..
    I have not had one single fish death in almost a year.
    less food is always better than more.

    scot

  2. #18

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    Thumbs up

    OK time for a crash course in chemistry!!

    Natrate and Nitrite behave differently in fish tanks. Nitrite is very toxic as it binds to the hemoglobin in fish blood like carbonmonoxide does with us. This stops the blood from carrying oxygen, and if there is enough Nitrite it can suffocate the fish. At night there is less oxygen in the water so the fish can suffocate easier. You can also get a Nitrite spike if the oxygen level drops as the bacteria need oxygen to feed on the Nitrite, which means if the oxygen drops your fish can get a double whamy!! This is why I wanted to know what time your fish died.

    Nitrate is much less toxic and will only have (drasticly) noticable effects in large quantities, usualy over 100ppm. Although lower levels can still have bad long term effects, but not usualy start a mass dieoff.

    I could go on for pages here but if you want more info feel free to email me.

    I would feed your fish at least twice a day. Livebarers and most other small active fish have fast metabolisms and require rugular feeding. Scot is right that fish can go a long time without food, but this is something where they have to be well fed and healthy before hand. Continuous bouts of starvation can be very detrimental. In the retail industry it is considered very bad to feed livbarers less than twice a day and should be fed three times or more. In this situation the fish are in bare tanks so there is nothing for them to pick at though.

    Remember you are better off feeding half as much twice as often! The key to not over feeding, is not how often but how much. Even if you fish eat all the food they are fed, if fed too much food they pass it only party digested, which is just as bad as if they never ate it and left it to rot.

    I am not familliar with the food you are feeding but as long as it is a good brand. It is not a good idea to feed food that has been open for more than 3 months as it goes off. Also always seal the lid after feeding, store in cool place, not ontop of the tank, and NEVER get the food out with wet fingers!!!!

    Scots water changes sound good.

    An air pump is a good idea, I run air on all my tanks except in special curcumstances. I do not use hang on filters as I feel the surface area is not that good, and leaves little room for error, not that they dont work. If you cleaned the filter recently this could lead to a problems with damaging the filter bacteria. Remember NEVER turn the pump off at night. The penguin biowheels use disposable cartridges if I am right, I do not like these as when you throw them away you lose a lot of your bacteria. Did you clean your filter recently?

    Phew....
    I hope this is of sopme help
    George

  3. #19
    apple rings.. what more can i say? FlytrapGurl's Avatar
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    I clean the darned things every week [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/img]

    Anyhowees, I did the water change and went to WalMart today. Got a 14 inch bubble curtain, 8 foot air tube, and a pump. Only until I was half way down the road to home did I look in the bag and realize that the pump was too small!!! And I wasn't about to drive back, either. It said only pumped out 1200 cc. a minute(what a cc. is has me), while... ok... let me explain this better... the pump I got only pumps out 1200 cc. a minute. A 1200 cc./min pump requires a 5'' airstone. But a 2800 cc./min pump is the one that requires the 14'' airstone, which is what I have... so I need to go tomorrow back to WalMart and exchange this 1200 cc./min pump for a 2800 cc./min one. ***sigh***

    ***bangs head on keyboard*** Stupidstupidstupid... !!! Oof... ow... geeeesh.... head... ache... ow... ***runs to kitchen cabinet for pain pills***
    Liquid Plummer
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  4. #20
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    really all you need is a tiny pump and a tiny airstone..
    those really long 14" "bubble curtains" are just for looks, they do nothing that a 1" airstone wont do just as well!

    IMO airstones are totally un-necessary anyway, I have never had one, just the filter outflow alone keeps the surface churned up enough to allow proper gas exchange..
    you dont "need" an airstone at all.
    they are just for looks only.
    so what you bought is probably fine! the smaller pump just wont make as many bubbles with the long bubble wand..it might only "fill" half of it..which isnt a big deal at all! unless you really want the long curtain of bubbles..but it will make zero difference for your fish or your tank health.

    the problem with nitrates (or was it nitrites?) building up in your tank has absolutely nothing to do with gas exchange at the surface..bubbles will do nothing to improve the situation.
    the problem was solely the once a month water changes.
    you can have a perfectly healthy tank simply by increasing the water change schedule!
    I have the impression you are getting bubbles to improve the health of your tank?they will do nothing to improve the health,
    they just look nice, they do nothing for the tank other than looks..(if your filter outflow is already agitating the water surface..which it probably is.)

    Scot

  5. #21

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    I agree, all you need is a small airstone. I usualy use 1" air stones, unless there is a large fish in the tank like my Murray cod, where I use a 2" (5cm) ball to keep it on the bottom of the tank.

    A cc is a Cubic Centimetre, about 16cc = a cubic inch. Unfortunatly America does not use standard scientific units and persists with Imperial measurements. A few years ago (and maybe still) America was the ONLY country in the world that did not use or was not changing to metric. Oh well I guess a few more space probes will have to crash into Mars before they change [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] I would feel that 1200cc/min would be ample.

    The main use of an air stone is to get fresh air into a tank. A lot of the gasses produced by a tank like CO2 and methane etc. are heavier than air and will sit on the surface of the water reducing oxygen exchange. If you rely on something lke your hang on filter to oxygenate the water you can simply end up circulateing the stale air. If you have good air circulation and surface agetation, an air pump will make little difference but if you have cover glass or a hood on the tank I would strongly recomend an airpump.

    If you arer cleaning your fileter every week I would feel this would be bad for the tank. Not so much the cleaning but the destroying of your filter bacteria. I would sugest adding some other filter media, like ceramic noodles some how [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/img]

    Also never forget that plants can be a very effective filter as some species feed directly of the ammonia produced by the fish reducing the bioload on your filters. I have a saying that if you set up a tank to grow plants well, you will have healthy fish! Do you have plants in your tank and if so are they growing well (growing well means that you have to remove excess plants on a regular bassis)?

    Sounds like we are getting somewhere!
    Best of luck,
    George

  6. #22
    apple rings.. what more can i say? FlytrapGurl's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Yes, I have a full hood on the tank. And no, I have no live plants in the tank, just extremely realistic silk ones [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] . BTW, I am about to install the bubble curtain... if it does nothing to improve the health of the tank, then oh well... it still looks reeeeaaaalll puuurrrrrrrrtyyyyy!!!! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

    I'll keep you updated,
    FTG
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  7. #23

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    If you have a hood on the tank I would strongly recomend an air pump! I would also recomend some hardy plants like Java Fern (Microsorium pteropus), Anubias barteri or spawning moss (Vesicularia dubyana). I dont know what names they would be sold under over there though. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    George

  8. #24
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    actually, I *wouldnt* recommend any live plants!
    live plants in an aquarium is a TOTALLY different aspect and direction to the hobby! you cant just plop 2 or 3 plants into a tank! they wont do well..they will just slowly die and mess up the tank even more..

    to have a sucessfull planted aquarium you need to CRAM it with plants! Planted aquariums are VERY different from unplanted aquariums, and far more difficult! you need proper lighting, and a LOT of light! proper substrate (UGFs can not be used)
    NO airstones with planted tanks! because they drive off the CO2, its a totally different direction to the hobby, and you cant just add a few plants to an already existing tank, it doesent work that way. and you need WAY more plants than fish! just figuring out how to properly beat algae takes about 2 years of learning![img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    plants are WAY more difficult than fish! much more demanding and much harder to keep happy.
    the Algae battle is an endless nightmare..
    going from a non-planted to a planted tank (live plants) is about the same jump as going from non-planted to salt water! they are really that different!

    FTG, live plants in your tank would be a bad idea, just stick with your plastic plants for now!
    if you want to get into planted tanks in the future, it would be best to build one from scratch..


    the best way to think about a planted tank is something I read awhile back:

    With a planted aquarium, you should NOT be thinking "I would like to add a few plants to my fish tank"
    instead you need to be thinking "I would like to add a few fish to my plant tank!"
    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    Scot

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