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Glofish

Anybody plan on buying the super cool Glofish next month? These fish have been genetically altered with a gene from an anemone. And they "glow" under blacklight. As of right now, these fish aren't allowed to be sold in CA
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http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html
Oh yeah, and don't tell me its unethical and all that. If you don't like it, don't buy it
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honestly... I am not sure how I feel about this yet... I guess my end opinion will be determined on whether or not the gene can breed true in natural stock...

The Zebra Danio is native to India I think, so whether it is sold here or not will really have no bearing on polluting the gene pool, except if the fish breeds in someones tank with natural stock and disperses a mixed bag of babies around, who know... I don't see it as a really big issue I guess.

But you know.. my knee jerk reaction is that this fish belongs in a tank with bubbling scuba men, wrecked plastic galleons and neon pink plastic plants... As someone who is partial to creating a native eco-system in my tanks, Perhaps I see this fish as artificial, and fitting in an artificial environment... perhaps I am overthinking it!
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Yeah, these fish just wouldn't look right in a natural setting. I just want to see them glow under blacklight when all regular lighting has been turned off. What a sight that would be
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i think the law about this in california is bull , i would really like to get this fish but then again , a genteically altered animal , have'nt they done enough with plants , hhhhm , i'd still like to get ahold of this fish though , i see no harm in letting it be sold in california , its not like the illegal pirhana that can kil yuh .
 
piranah would be hard pressed to kill you. They are illegal because they can easily adapt to north american water ways and upset the ecology.

I guess what it comes down to is 'didn't God make enough pretty fish allready?'
 
They've made a glow in the dark orchid that actually glows on its own without the need of a blacklight, or so I've read.
I don't know if this is true or not, since I've never seen it sold anywhere or heard anybody talk about it, but here's the link
glow in the dark orchid
 
I saw these yesterday when I went to That Fish Place. They were selling for $6.99 each. I would not spend my money on them. Then again I do not like the .99 ones either. I guess if you a big Zebra fan, go for it.
 
this topic should be in the freshwater forum . too bad i'm not a mod .
 
I'm glad this glow zebra will not be sold in CA. I would hate to see this fish take over in pet shops, it's bad enough that the long finned variety has replaced the normal zebra danio in many stores around here. I think nature got it right the first time and the zebra danio and every other fish should be left as they are.
 
  • #10
If animal cruelty laws applied to fish, these would be illegal.
illegal to create or own.
unfortuntely, animal cruelty laws dont apply to fish, so people are free to paint fish, dip them in acid, dye them, breed them without fins, whatever..just to make a few bucks!
its sickning..
I would be very happy if no one ever bought ANY of these fish and the scum that created them were forced to go out of business..
but of course, that will never happen..these fish will be wildely popular im sure!
because they are "cool" or "cute"..
and stupid people will buy them because they dont know any better..
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  • #11
How were these fish cruely treated? All that's happened is that they had their genes replaced. And the offsprings of those original fish had nothing done to them, they simply inherited this gene. There was no dye injection going on.
If i still kept fish, I'd buy these guys (but not at its current price). I'd also want the green glowing ones that haven't made it to market.
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  • #12
Larry,
lets take it up the evolutionary ladder..
suppose puppies were created that glowed in the dark..
why? just because..so people will buy them, just for the novelty..
suppose fish were bred without tails..on purpose, just for the novelty and to make money..(they exist..tail-less discus)
suppose your children "just had their genes replaced" for no good reason..maybe better eyesight, maybe supposed disease resistance..maybe better althletic ability..maybe just for looks..blue eyes? prefer red hair? we can just tweak those genes..no problem!
would you be ok with that?
sure that seems far-fetched right?
nope..its happening now..these fish are the beginning..

the point is, we dont know if replacing fish genes ONLY makes them glow..and does nothing else..
if these fish escape into the wild, what will it do to the native populations?
no one has any idea..

changing genes for profit is apalling..
I rank the creation of these fish right up there with Hitler on the "greatest evils of humanity" scale..
and no, im not exxagerating..

Scot
 
  • #13
Hehe, we did this in my bio class but instead we used bacteria and spliced it's genes with a jelly fish gene that made it glow green under UV. The only fish that i know that they do cruel things to are the indian glass fish. They inject some load of crap into them and pass them off as "painted fish" sick people.
 
  • #14
Well, fish aren't people. I think its ok to mess with animals/plants. Aren't we actively selecting the better genes by trying to breed bigger stronger healthier plants/animals? The corn we eat are probably of the genetically modified kind. What they've done to the fish is similar, but a faster way of gene modification. Sure, the introduced gene is unnatural, but it produces some wonderful results. If these "mutant" zebra fish escaped into our waters, there's no chance of them breeding with native species. The problem only occurs when/if they escaped into their native waters.
 
  • #15
ok.. want to clear some things up from what I have researched.

These fish apparently have been around for quite some time, and were created (and how they serve this purpose, I can't figure out.) as a polution indicator fish, somehow, they are supposed to help people figure out polution levels in a body of water.

The only thing I can think of, is that their flouresence makes them easy to spot, and thus catch, and thus they are released into an eco-system and caught later and disected and a bio-assay is done on their tissue to see what is getting into the natural fish. Since these are a tropical species incapable of surviving in north american water ways, the ones they don't catch die off every winter, even in places like texas... though, I would want dead to rights proof that these fish will die in florida... (whatever.)

I am kind of in agreement with scotty, and at the same time, kind of not. I mean, where do you draw the line, and how can that line be arbitrary to one and not another? I agree with Larry that the creation of the fish is and of itself not a cruel act, As all life shares so much DNA, that the replacement of these genes may not be so much a re-placement, but a crude way of 'switching them on' so to speak... in the same vein.. how do you really know, as scotty says, that that is all you have done? I guess observe the fish and see... if it looks happy, it's probably happy...

ok... as for people turning a profit on this fish, while I am on the fence about the whole genetic tinkering thing, if these fish really can benefit our environment (when used responsibly by pro's of course) and, as the companies web site says, proceeds go towards funding the lab to further it's goal of environmental protection, it's almost not so bad... note.. I said "ALMOST" because I can read between the lines... this lab will make money, probably more than they know what to do with.

Plain and simple truth... (IMHO) God did just fine on his own and doesn't need us fiddling around with these animals genes to try and improve the situation... we invariably screw things up this way. (BTW, I think breeding veils and so on is jus tlike breeding jack russels and bull terriers... I don't have a problem with it, as long as the animals remain domestic.)

One real cause for concern, that cleary puts a point on this whole argument, is the Frankenfish... a genetically altered salmon (produces incredible amounts of growth hormone.) Fisheries are trying to get rights to raise these genetically altered fish in net pen habitats, escapes happen from these habitats.... and according to the facts and numbers, even if the companies achieved a 99.9% sterility rate from their freak fish (which are designed to grow faster, put on more weight and generally make more food for us, but suffer from defects in that their anatomy can NOT keep up with the modifications (undersized heads, deformities) any how, even at 99.9% when your talking millions of fish, those that escape and are NOT sterile, posessing a breeding advantage (females go for the larger males) could literally wipe out the natural population of these fish in decades. (RE total DISASTER.) all for a buck...

and when you get right down to it, how is a glo fish much different? It may have started with good intentions... but well, I guess who knows... one could say that a fish that glows, if it did make it into it's native indian waterways... would make a pretty inviting snack... (Of course, India has already played with the balance of it's eco-systems by importing crocs to eat the dead people they float down the... umm.. is it ganges? not sure... heck... I am not sure of anything... it's late... time for bed.
 
  • #16
RP,
good points on the glowfish..
I think my main issue is not necessarily with these fish exactly..
but more what they represent..
that they are only the "first wave" of what is to come..
there have already been "glow in the dark" rabbits created with this same (or a similar) jellyfish gene!
if people say "oh its no big deal..so what if they glow! if they escape they wont live anyway" etc etc..
that starts the "acceptance" of bigger and worse things..
glowing fish and rabbits?
so what? no big deal.
glowing dogs and cats?
cool! bring it on.
Salmon raised to have more meat?
sounds great!
whats wrong with having more salmon meat around?
Cows bred for more meat?
umm..sure, why not, we already do it with salmon..
cows that cant even walk because they are giant blobs of fat and meat bred that way on purpose to create more food?
well...ummm..sure, cant do much to stop it anyway can we!

I have an old book..came out in the 80's.
its called "Man after Man"..
an artists idea of what humanity will become in centuries and millenia into the future..
there is one painting in there that depicts exactly where this "innocent" glowing fish could end up..
I will look for it on-line!
it might be out there somewhere..
stay tuned..
Scot
 
  • #17
waiting with baited breath. (seriously... this sounds cool.)
 
  • #18
hmmm..well ok then.
never mind.

(edited on 12-17)
 
  • #19
Hi,

Well, I saw the glo-zebras and blahhhh. They are not particularly nice zebras to begin with and the color is far from total and far from uniform. They didn't look nearly as good as the photos I have seen. I am thinking that they are this year's "pet rock". I doubt that they will stick around at the high prices. They'll be cheapies soon enough after a few guys make some bucks. With all the incredibly gorgeous tropical fish in nature full of fascinating behavior, it says alot about the unthinking commercialization of our culture that this Frankenstein fish is the tropical fish that makes the national news!!!! I don't have anything against them really. They're just nothing to scream about.

Bobby
 
  • #20
As you have all pointed out, this isn't all the companies will try...
 
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