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Thread: Updates on the ivory montys

  1. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (biggun110 @ June 29 2004,11:24)]Hi Nflytrap,

    This is great news. With any luck the next batch won't be too long and in a few months you will know the fun of overpopulation. All my little monties are sexed out too and looking good. I'm especially excited by a couple of particularly big nezzie males developing -- very nice.

    The Velifera mollies are doing great and eat like pigs. They are so much thicker than domestic mollies and the long dorsal fin base is very evident. Hopefully the petenensis will come next week.

    I sent a friend some Phalloceros and all arrived well, so hopefully that will become a colony.

    Gnatholebias are easy to keep and breed but the peat is difficult to incubate as it needs a constant 80F for 5 months plus you need to wet it for an hour at 4 months and then redry and hatch at 5 months and at 6 months. Eggs can take 9 months to hatch. Plus they have horrible sex ratios. My 15 fry look to be 13 males and 2 females -- ugh! They are a big gorgeous peaceful fish though that just love fruit flies!

    I have Simpsonichthys whitei right now which was a Cynolebias for 50 years. It is from Brazil and this is a new population a friend collected last year. The breeders are F1's. I hope they are prolific as usual and I should have 100's in 2 months! Whitei is a great beginner's annual. They are a beauty.

    I also have what was once called Cynolebias lacortei and is now in a new genus something like Macroara or the like. It is a beauty and very weird looking -- look it up on the South American Annual site or cynolebias group on Yahoo. It is named after my old friend and the world's greatest breeder of all kinds of tropical fish Rosario LaCorte. Nemobrycon lacortei is also named for him -- the Rainbow Emperor Tetra, a real gem. Emperor Tets are great plant tank fish.

    Nigripinnis and bellottii can take near freezing weather as they come from Argentina. They like temperatures in the 50's and 60's part of the year but breed better in the 70's. They need to be hatched in cool water and not raised too warm. They have been collected from iced over ponds in Argentina. There is no prettier fish than a good male nigripinnis. Stunning. Like stars on a dark night.

    Read the Beginner's Guide on the AKA webpage for a good intro to killie keeping.

    Boy you should see the F. fallax now. Some of the males are stunning and 2 orange males did appear among all the yellows. I also cured the other batch of velvet but lost the plants in the tank from all the salt.

    I'm getting some new young Scriptoaphyosemion (Roloffia) "calabarica" killies as the pairs I had refused to breed. Once a month the females would just dump their eggs unfertilized in a big clump -- very strange behavior for killies. The females hated the males and the males gave up chasing them. I have never seen this in almost 40 years of killie keeping.

    My Malpulutta kretseri gouramis refuse to breed. They are a very very very shy species but quite delicately beautiful. I don't know the problem still working on it.

    Glad the java moss did so well. You have mean Hets! I'd leave 3-4 male swords in the tank and put the rest outside to see. Of course catching them will be a female.

    Bobby
    I'll break this up into little bits.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]This is great news. With any luck the next batch won't be too long and in a few months you will know the fun of overpopulation. All my little monties are sexed out too and looking good. I'm especially excited by a couple of particularly big nezzie males developing -- very nice
    Yup...the young females are quite plump, And I'm guessing maybe 2 weeks till they both drop fry! They are pretty small, so I think I will only get around 15-20 and then you have to subtract the dumb ones that can't run fast enough.

    Btw, do any of your young male montys show vertical bars above the stripes on their sides(the dorsolateral stripe?)? I'm guessing its just a teen thing, as the male you sent me has no sign of them. I'm watching one of my young males in particular, he is the largest, and yet his dorsal fin hasn't developed and he still looks much like a juvie. I wonder how big he will be?

    Also, I remember you mentioning that the male you sent was still young and hadn't grown the full length of his sword and dorsal. When will he be at his prime? Both(but most noticeably the dorsal) have grown quite a bit since you sent him(as you saw from the pics).

    Good luck with those nezzies! I agree that late bloomers are always exciting. I had some with petstore swordtails, but it was usually the difference between a 1 inch male to a 1 1/2 to 2 inch one...LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]The Velifera mollies are doing great and eat like pigs. They are so much thicker than domestic mollies and the long dorsal fin base is very evident. Hopefully the petenensis will come next week.
    Great to know! If you ever get a camera, I want to see pics! I've seen supposed Velifera online, and the dorsal size varies quite a bit-from the same size as a nice male latipinna, to a huge sail that actually peaks in the middle.

    BTw, did you see the wild molly auction(I believe in was caucana...not sure) on aquabid? Went up in flames! They didn't exactly resemble mollies, maybe giant blue mosquitofish with a cool dorsal-but that was enough to perk interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I sent a friend some Phalloceros and all arrived well, so hopefully that will become a colony
    Sounds good. They sound very nice to keep. What I really like about livebearers is maintaining a colony, and having members grow mature, and reproduce in the same tank.



    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Gnatholebias are easy to keep and breed but the peat is difficult to incubate as it needs a constant 80F for 5 months plus you need to wet it for an hour at 4 months and then redry and hatch at 5 months and at 6 months. Eggs can take 9 months to hatch. Plus they have horrible sex ratios. My 15 fry look to be 13 males and 2 females -- ugh! They are a big gorgeous peaceful fish though that just love fruit flies!

    I have Simpsonichthys whitei right now which was a Cynolebias for 50 years. It is from Brazil and this is a new population a friend collected last year. The breeders are F1's. I hope they are prolific as usual and I should have 100's in 2 months! Whitei is a great beginner's annual. They are a beauty.
    Wow...the hatching process sounds pretty complicated for the gnatholebias. Not only do you have to keep them dry for a few months, then you wet them at the proper time and then wait some more. Do you ever have trouble with your bags of egg drying up while in "storage"? I've seen pics of Whitei, nice lookers. Dunno where I would ever find most kinds of killies though, and i'm not sure if I would be comfy starting from eggs.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I also have what was once called Cynolebias lacortei and is now in a new genus something like Macroara or the like. It is a beauty and very weird looking -- look it up on the South American Annual site or cynolebias group on Yahoo. It is named after my old friend and the world's greatest breeder of all kinds of tropical fish Rosario LaCorte. Nemobrycon lacortei is also named for him -- the Rainbow Emperor Tetra, a real gem. Emperor Tets are great plant tank fish.

    Nigripinnis and bellottii can take near freezing weather as they come from Argentina. They like temperatures in the 50's and 60's part of the year but breed better in the 70's. They need to be hatched in cool water and not raised too warm. They have been collected from iced over ponds in Argentina. There is no prettier fish than a good male nigripinnis. Stunning. Like stars on a dark night.
    Wow! Thats pretty cool! I've seen pictures of that species of tetra in the books, but only Emperor tetras in life. I'll have to look up the "Macroara"...splitters in control? LOL

    Have you seen the nigripinnis in life? Again, only pictures for me. Yeah, the book quoted someone who described them as"like stars in a summer night". Gorgeous fish. I bet that you could even do an "annual pond". Line the bottom with peat and/or cocofiber, and simply allow it to dry up after your fish spawn themselves out. Keep it moist while there is no water, and at the right add water and instant fish! Or maybe just wait for it to rain.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Boy you should see the F. fallax now. Some of the males are stunning and 2 orange males did appear among all the yellows. I also cured the other batch of velvet but lost the plants in the tank from all the salt.

    I'm getting some new young Scriptoaphyosemion (Roloffia) "calabarica" killies as the pairs I had refused to breed. Once a month the females would just dump their eggs unfertilized in a big clump -- very strange behavior for killies. The females hated the males and the males gave up chasing them. I have never seen this in almost 40 years of killie keeping.
    Actually, I have never seen them! LOL *nudge*

    Don't other "killies" normally lay clumps of eggs. What pops into mind is the medaka.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]My Malpulutta kretseri gouramis refuse to breed. They are a very very very shy species but quite delicately beautiful. I don't know the problem still working on it.
    You're very lucky to own those guys. I couldn't give any suggestions besides the obvious stuff like"Do they have a place to spawn? Is the water soft and acidic?" but I do wish you luck! Perhaps I will see their descendants someday. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] Glad the java moss did so well. You have mean Hets! I'd leave 3-4 male swords in the tank and put the rest outside to see. Of course catching them will be a female.
    Its growing nicely. Yesterday I was adding laterite to the tank and since I had to stir up the sand, the tank was pretty cloudy(the laterite wasn't as bad as I expected actually). The java moss in the foreground looks like it has been sprinkled with brown snow. Hope to get rid of that soon.

    lol about the mean hets. Would you believe they fight over food? If you put lots of food in the same spot, the females will often try to defend it. They lighten to a golden color, raise their fins, puff their cheeks, and circle and "charge" each other(no damage though). Its pretty amusing because while 2 or 3 fish are doing battle, everyone else is gobbling the food. Often, when the victor chases the loser away, the loser comes back after a minute or two to help herself to the food while the winner is still chasing the other fish. Even little 3 mm long fry show this behavior.


    BTw, do you have any suggestions on catching them? They may be even harder than a CAE to catch! Fast, and unlike most fish, seem to be able to think ahead(very helpful when you are trapped in a corner and one net is billowed out and another one is coming towards you and you realize that you can go up!)... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/mad.gif[/img] I tried the classic jar on a string trap, but they didn't bite. Any suggestions?

    Thanks! I really enjoy finding out what progress your specimens are making.
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    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  2. #18

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    I just noticed 2 sets of 35 nigripinnis eggs on aquabid. Very interesting.
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  3. #19

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    [Quote ]

    Yup...the young females are quite plump, And I'm guessing maybe 2 weeks till they both drop fry! They are pretty small, so I think I will only get around 15-20 and then you have to subtract the dumb ones that can't run fast enough.

    [/quote]

    My young females are filling up too. I culled down to the next generation this week -- about 7 pairs. The males do seem to have less black than their parents, so maybe they are reverting. I'd love to see a male as thick as the photo Marlin uses. Monties are not bad fry eaters so you may be surprized.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Btw, do any of your young male montys show vertical bars above the stripes on their sides(the dorsolateral stripe?)? I'm guessing its just a teen thing, as the male you sent me has no sign of them. I'm watching one of my young males in particular, he is the largest, and yet his dorsal fin hasn't developed and he still looks much like a juvie. I wonder how big he will be?
    Yes, I have seen those. Nezzies really have them and they can stay on them. Breed the big male and each generation will get larger.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Also, I remember you mentioning that the male you sent was still young and hadn't grown the full length of his sword and dorsal. When will he be at his prime? Both(but most noticeably the dorsal) have grown quite a bit since you sent him(as you saw from the pics).
    He is a year old now so should be maxed out. Some color in the dorsal may still develop. Size should be at max.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Good luck with those nezzies! I agree that late bloomers are always exciting. I had some with petstore swordtails, but it was usually the difference between a 1 inch male to a 1 1/2 to 2 inch one...LOL
    I had a strain of hi fin lyretail swords that got to be 5 inches on the females and 4 inches on the males. I had it for 7 generations before it crapped out genetically. Boy they were fine. The hi fins were huge full triangles that flowed past the caudal fins. It was a lucky cross on my part. They sold in shops here for $25 a pair.



    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Great to know! If you ever get a camera, I want to see pics! I've seen supposed Velifera online, and the dorsal size varies quite a bit-from the same size as a nice male latipinna, to a huge sail that actually peaks in the middle.
    The best photo of a true wild velifera is in the old Innes book EXOTIC AQURIUM FISHES. Most domestic sailfins are velifera based crosses but the real article is bigger, thicker, more colorful and has a huge teacup shaped dorsal fin. I'm waiting on the replacement petenensis. I'm going to be devoting alot of tanks to these so I can raise them right and distribute them. The killies will be phased down for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    BTw, did you see the wild molly auction(I believe in was caucana...not sure) on aquabid? Went up in flames! They didn't exactly resemble mollies, maybe giant blue mosquitofish with a cool dorsal-but that was enough to perk interest.
    The best shenops type wild species is P. orri. It can be gorgeous -- as well as salvatoris.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Sounds good. They sound very nice to keep. What I really like about livebearers is maintaining a colony, and having members grow mature, and reproduce in the same tank.
    Yes like keeping guppies only that look like tiny marble mollies with a gold body. I love the little guys. They have huge gonopodiums!


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Wow...the hatching process sounds pretty complicated for the gnatholebias. Not only do you have to keep them dry for a few months, then you wet them at the proper time and then wait some more. Do you ever have trouble with your bags of egg drying up while in "storage"? I've seen pics of Whitei, nice lookers. Dunno where I would ever find most kinds of killies though, and i'm not sure if I would be comfy starting from eggs.
    Yes, you have to check the bags every week to check moisture and add a bit at times as the bags breathe and the peat dries. I leave my peat just a hair damper than most to give me some wiggle room here. Northern California has great killie guys. Sacramento may have a club. Check the AKA homepage. I think Roger Brousseau lives there or Fresno and he is a great Cynolebias, Gnatholebias breeder and has a whole book on them. Look him up and tell him I sent you. He has collected Gnatholebias many times in Venezuela over the years. Eggs are a great way to go if from a good source. Killie fry must have live baby brine shrimp to grow well.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Wow! Thats pretty cool! I've seen pictures of that species of tetra in the books, but only Emperor tetras in life. I'll have to look up the "Macroara"...splitters in control? LOL
    Oh, Rainbow Emperor are gorgeous and few photos really capture them. Emperors are all great fish and easy to breed in soft acid water. They will colony breed with tons of java moss.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Have you seen the nigripinnis in life? Again, only pictures for me. Yeah, the book quoted someone who described them as"like stars in a summer night". Gorgeous fish. I bet that you could even do an "annual pond". Line the bottom with peat and/or cocofiber, and simply allow it to dry up after your fish spawn themselves out. Keep it moist while there is no water, and at the right add water and instant fish! Or maybe just wait for it to rain.
    I used to raise 100's of nigripinnis years ago but the summer heat was tough as it caused them to become belly sliders sometimes. You can pool breed annual killies. Just put big tubs of peat moss for them to breed in and keep the bottom bare. Collect the peat and store. Trying the natural way would probably fail. The fish will get huge and colorful outside.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Actually, I have never seen them! LOL *nudge*
    Did you want some fallax?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Don't other "killies" normally lay clumps of eggs. What pops into mind is the medaka.
    Medakas do but most killies lay one or two eggs at a time.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    You're very lucky to own those guys. I couldn't give any suggestions besides the obvious stuff like"Do they have a place to spawn? Is the water soft and acidic?" but I do wish you luck! Perhaps I will see their descendants someday.
    After waiting 30 years! Water is very soft and acid. I will heat them up to 85F and add floating film containers which they supposedly like for a nest. I was trying pots.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    lol about the mean hets. Would you believe they fight over food? If you put lots of food in the same spot, the females will often try to defend it. They lighten to a golden color, raise their fins, puff their cheeks, and circle and "charge" each other(no damage though). Its pretty amusing because while 2 or 3 fish are doing battle, everyone else is gobbling the food. Often, when the victor chases the loser away, the loser comes back after a minute or two to help herself to the food while the winner is still chasing the other fish. Even little 3 mm long fry show this behavior.
    So have you seen them doing their weird egg laying ritual?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    BTw, do you have any suggestions on catching them? They may be even harder than a CAE to catch! Fast, and unlike most fish, seem to be able to think ahead(very helpful when you are trapped in a corner and one net is billowed out and another one is coming towards you and you realize that you can go up!)... I tried the classic jar on a string trap, but they didn't bite. Any suggestions?
    Drain the tank low? Use your hands to corral them toward the net. Get up at night turn on the light in the dark and get them sleeping.

    Well, that's all. Today was harvesting and drying peat moss from everyone. It all looked to be full of eggs. We have a killie show this weekend. I hope to see some cool fish.

    Take care.

    Bobby

  4. #20

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    Bobby[/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Yes, I have seen those. Nezzies really have them and they can stay on them. Breed the big male and each generation will get larger.
    The young males are often using sneak mating tactics, which seem more effective than displaying. I'm thinking of removing some to the pond, but i'm unsure of what to do with the smaller males. Perhaps do a cross of some sort? Have you ever tried crossing montezumae into highfin or lyretail swordtails?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]He is a year old now so should be maxed out. Some color in the dorsal may still develop. Size should be at max.
    Thats pretty impressive. My cruddy(but hardy) petstore strain swordtails seldom lived over 1 year and a half, and by that time you could tell they were winded. They were at there prime in 6-7 months...diss of being tiny I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Northern California has great killie guys. Sacramento may have a club. Check the AKA homepage. I think Roger Brousseau lives there or Fresno and he is a great Cynolebias, Gnatholebias breeder and has a whole book on them. Look him up and tell him I sent you. He has collected Gnatholebias many times in Venezuela over the years. Eggs are a great way to go if from a good source. Killie fry must have live baby brine shrimp to grow well.
    I've seen BBS in little vials and in cans. How long does the smallest can last? I assume if you arent fast enough you will have a whole bunch of "mummies". Guess I will find him in the phonebook...or do you have an email? Do you know of any club situated in Fresno?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]After waiting 30 years! Water is very soft and acid. I will heat them up to 85F and add floating film containers which they supposedly like for a nest. I was trying pots.
    I heard that they often spawn under cryptocryne leaves. I spawned paradise fish(first egglayer!) under a lid from a yogurt container. Only diss was that it tended to tip and eject parts of the nest. I wish I could try P. dayii, but i'm short on room as of now.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]So have you seen them doing their weird egg laying ritual?
    Hets laying eggs? Naw...Whats it like?

    I will try the nighttime stalking thing on the cull and some smaller males. That cull is starting to make me mad...eating so much!


    Also, after SIX days in the mail, the bluespotted sunnies finally arrived. The guy on the other end made a bit of a mistake and sent them out on wednesday(he normally only ships on Monday). They didn't arrive on friday or Saturday...and Sunday and 4th of July holiday added another 2 days.

    Luckily almost everyone made it, and he through in tons of extras. I think I have at least 8...counting juvies. 3 died on the way, one larger juvie and 2 small ones. I've managed to get them to eat live blackworms and frozen bloodworms. He also stuck in a tadpole madtom(basically a mini(2inches...will grow to 4) channel cat), a central mudminnow(little relative of the pike...definetly not going in with any small fish!), and a tesselated darter(but this one died on the way). None of the extras are in with the monties.


    Thanks! Go ahead and give me a report on the show-never been to one. You entering any of your fish?
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  5. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]

    The young males are often using sneak mating tactics, which seem more effective than displaying. I'm thinking of removing some to the pond, but i'm unsure of what to do with the smaller males. Perhaps do a cross of some sort? Have you ever tried crossing montezumae into highfin or lyretail swordtails?
    Actually I have one young male (monty x helleri) x hi fin helleri growing up and my friend in florida who made the monty x helleri cross is sending me some females from a back cross he did between the (monty x helleri) and just a red velvet low fin helleri. The m x h cross was so infertile after 3 generations that we both went back to the helleri males. It seems the m x h females were fertile somewhat but the males were duds. So now hopefully I can cross this hi fin hybrid to the backcrosssed hybrids and get fry. The lyretail cross will be tough unless the hybrid males are fertile. My friend says the backcross still has the long long sword which was what he was going for. The round dorsal gets lost -- so far. I want to cross nezzies to hi fin variatus and get a hi fin nezzie. That could be cool.

    Get the little males out as they will do all the breeding with those sneak attacks.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Thats pretty impressive. My cruddy(but hardy) petstore strain swordtails seldom lived over 1 year and a half, and by that time you could tell they were winded. They were at there prime in 6-7 months...diss of being tiny I guess.
    If you keep them around 72-74F they live longer as they grow slower. You can make store swords large if you raise virgin females and keep selecting the big males that develop late (if the strain still has the gene). In a few generations you can have 4 inch fish. Plus feed 3-6 times a day; at least 2 live baby brine feedings, big tanks and 2 80% water changes a week. They just raise and sell the store swords so fast.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I've seen BBS in little vials and in cans. How long does the smallest can last? I assume if you arent fast enough you will have a whole bunch of "mummies". Guess I will find him in the phonebook...or do you have an email? Do you know of any club situated in Fresno?
    The eggs last a long time if kept dry and cool. Alot of people keep them in the freezer but I do not as I worry about moisture. I keep mine in the 70's and use a 16oz can in 2 months and get good hatches. Always buy from places like brineshrimpdirect and just get a 2 oz can to start and see how it goes. Roger Brousseau's email is: <dr_rog@yahoo.com>. He may collecting in Brazil right now but email him. He is a very nice guy and can put you in touch with great killie guys in your area. Killie guys always have other rare fish too and real fishrooms with livefoods. Great people to know. Roger has an excellent book on south american killies. Just give him my name. I think he is in Sacramento but I forget.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I heard that they often spawn under cryptocryne leaves. I spawned paradise fish(first egglayer!) under a lid from a yogurt container. Only diss was that it tended to tip and eject parts of the nest. I wish I could try P. dayii, but i'm short on room as of now.
    dayii is pretty much like kretseri. I need to get a crypt or anubias in there can't believe I ignored that choice! Thanks for the reminder. The germans have all kinds of wild regular paradise that are gorgeous. Look at the german lybrinthfish association webpage -- intense color. I want the roundtail paradise from China. It can take being outside all year here as it needs the 40's in winter to do well.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]

    Hets laying eggs? Naw...Whats it like?
    Oh they embrace like paradise fish and lay eggs under a crypt leaf. Very interesting to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I will try the nighttime stalking thing on the cull and some smaller males. That cull is starting to make me mad...eating so much!
    LOL. In the wild monties will jump 3 feet up a water fall to escape netting i am told!

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Also, after SIX days in the mail, the bluespotted sunnies finally arrived. The guy on the other end made a bit of a mistake and sent them out on wednesday(he normally only ships on Monday). They didn't arrive on friday or Saturday...and Sunday and 4th of July holiday added another 2 days.
    Someone was not thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Luckily almost everyone made it, and he through in tons of extras. I think I have at least 8...counting juvies. 3 died on the way, one larger juvie and 2 small ones. I've managed to get them to eat live blackworms and frozen bloodworms. He also stuck in a tadpole madtom(basically a mini(2inches...will grow to 4) channel cat), a central mudminnow(little relative of the pike...definetly not going in with any small fish!), and a tesselated darter(but this one died on the way). None of the extras are in with the monties.
    Sounds like you have a great native pond going now. really keep those away from the monties. I have a deep distrust of all of those fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Thanks! Go ahead and give me a report on the show-never been to one. You entering any of your fish?
    I never made it as I came down with a cold and just didn't fel up to it. I was going to enter some huge Nothobranchius kafuensis Mambova I have. It's a new location and very robust. I have a bunch of eggs so I hope to have lots of fry in 2 months or more.

    My Gnatholebias gave me 5 females and 11 males so I am pretty happy. Now 5 pair go in a 30 for community egg laying. They blow peat out of an 8 inch bowl like bombs -- it goes everywhere when they dive to lay eggs. Amazing.

    The replacement P. petenensis are to be shipped tomorrow. I can't wait. A friend tried to bring back 3 locations of velifera, P. orri and P. salavoris from the Yucatan but he didn't get permits so the airport took them away. He has collected Endler's in Venezuela and has fantastic strains. He is sending me some Poceilia picta, a neat guppy like livebearer. He has a great cross between wild florida P. latipinna and wild P. petenensis mollies that I have. They are marbed and get to 4 inches with big sails. Really nice hardy regular mollies. His whole yard in florida is ponds so he has great fish.

    Bobby

  6. #22

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    Let me know how the pertensis turn out! Too bad you didn't get to go to the show. I bet you would have done very well! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]

    I was away for one week, so the tanks and other things were left in the care of my sister...along with 3 pages of instructions. Everything worked out great, probably due to the fact that I included water changes in the instructions(something I didn't last year which caused a beautiful algae outbreak). The 46 gallon is doing awesome! I've started using Flourish and the plants are running away from me. The elodea stand grew all the way across the tank, and 3 water lettuce plants turned into like 10 when I got back... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_l_32.gif[/img] The java moss is growing very nicely, and makes an excellent foreground. Unfortuanately, somehow a few bits of U. gibba are running around in the tank. I don't mind how they look, but I wonder if they will eat the organisms the fry like(or maybe they have some beneficial thing about them?).

    Despite all the cover, many monty fry dissapeared, probably due to the bluespots and the fact that the feeding schedule was changed a bit so they only got fed once every 2 days. I'm hoping I can wean them down to something a bit easier to portion the frozen bloodworms...one takes interest in the freeze dried daphnia but the rest will spit it out.

    Since I don't want to lose too many fry(but I don't mind a bit of natural selection going on), I'm thinking of putting the dingy ten gallon to work as a growout tank to raise them for the first several weeks when they are most vulnerable. If possible, I will not remove the females and just catch whatever fry survive and raise them to good size. When I judge them big enough to go into the tank(or the females produce another batch) then they will be released into the 46 gallon bowfront at night. I've also been considering my pond...but throwing lots of little fry in there(almost sure to be eaten) doesn't seem like a good way to start a population.

    The madtom seems pretty innocent, as all he does is hide under a few rocks during the daytime. He certainly could be a problem for fish that sleep on the bottom though. The sucking action is not as efficient as some other fish I've seen, and during the day he refuses to move more than half an inch to get food.

    The mudminnow is confined to a 3 gallon critterkeeper with java ferns and 2 inches of water for now. That might seem bad, but at this time he could easily be boiling in wet mud under the midday sun in the wild. He acts just like his larger pike namesake when he stalks small blackworms and other tidbits I give him. Though his mouth is very small compared to the pike, I think he could probably down a full grown heterandria formosa with some effort. I may jazz up his tank a bit so its more presentable sometime.

    I tried stalking the monties at night, but maybe I couldn't stay up late enough as I observed they were slowly swimming midwater...I'm going to billow out a large net on one side and see if I can herd some in during the night. Have you ever tried a fish trap of any sort?
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula &#39;Red Dragon&#39;(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  7. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Let me know how the pertensis turn out! Too bad you didn't get to go to the show. I bet you would have done very well!
    The second shipment of petenensis came in with the bag busted -- I hate breathable bags! The post office put the whole box in a big sealed yellow plastic bag so some moisture stayed in. It was a miracle but 12 of the mollies were alive in the wetness. They are happy and healthy now but I will get more to be sure to have a good population. They are shaped like the liberty mollies but with sailfins and the small black swords when mature. The veliferas are looking spectacular -- getting big, lots of sparkling, thick and active. I can't wait until 6 months. Man these all make store mollies look so crappy. I have a huge young male on the wild black spotted latipinna x petenensis cross sexing out. He is mostly black and already 3 inches. He should easily get to 4 or more inches. The top 1/3 of his dorsal is clear and the bottom 2/3's is black so should look wild when grown.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I was away for one week, so the tanks and other things were left in the care of my sister...along with 3 pages of instructions. Everything worked out great, probably due to the fact that I included water changes in the instructions(something I didn't last year which caused a beautiful algae outbreak). The 46 gallon is doing awesome! I've started using Flourish and the plants are running away from me. The elodea stand grew all the way across the tank, and 3 water lettuce plants turned into like 10 when I got back... The java moss is growing very nicely, and makes an excellent foreground. Unfortuanately, somehow a few bits of U. gibba are running around in the tank. I don't mind how they look, but I wonder if they will eat the organisms the fry like(or maybe they have some beneficial thing about them?).
    I fight gibba all the time. It gets everywhere and overgrows. I hate it in the moss. Most infusoria should be plentiful enough so it doesn't matter. Have you gotten any decapped brine shrimp yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Despite all the cover, many monty fry dissapeared, probably due to the bluespots and the fact that the feeding schedule was changed a bit so they only got fed once every 2 days. I'm hoping I can wean them down to something a bit easier to portion the frozen bloodworms...one takes interest in the freeze dried daphnia but the rest will spit it out.
    Smart to do the every 2 days feeding. I think the bluespots will keep your monty population down to zero growth. My angels certainly do. I have 9 young pregnant females now. I think some of my males may be larger than the parents -- I hope! Try brineshrimpdirect's freeze dried bloodworms -- good stuff and cheaper than the store's.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Since I don't want to lose too many fry(but I don't mind a bit of natural selection going on), I'm thinking of putting the dingy ten gallon to work as a growout tank to raise them for the first several weeks when they are most vulnerable. If possible, I will not remove the females and just catch whatever fry survive and raise them to good size. When I judge them big enough to go into the tank(or the females produce another batch) then they will be released into the 46 gallon bowfront at night.
    It's going to be hard to get good growth in the 10. I'd put the bluespots and all the natives in the pond. I think your troubles are only going to start multiplying.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I've also been considering my pond...but throwing lots of little fry in there(almost sure to be eaten) doesn't seem like a good way to start a population.
    What all is in the pond?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    The madtom seems pretty innocent,
    don't bet on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    as all he does is hide under a few rocks during the daytime. He certainly could be a problem for fish that sleep on the bottom though.
    bingo! Night time predator.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I tried stalking the monties at night, but maybe I couldn't stay up late enough as I observed they were slowly swimming midwater...I'm going to billow out a large net on one side and see if I can herd some in during the night. Have you ever tried a fish trap of any sort?
    No never tried a trap. I just drain the tank to 3 inches and use my hand to herd into a net.

    Bobby

  8. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]The second shipment of petenensis came in with the bag busted -- I hate breathable bags! The post office put the whole box in a big sealed yellow plastic bag so some moisture stayed in. It was a miracle but 12 of the mollies were alive in the wetness. They are happy and healthy now but I will get more to be sure to have a good population. They are shaped like the liberty mollies but with sailfins and the small black swords when mature. The veliferas are looking spectacular -- getting big, lots of sparkling, thick and active. I can't wait until 6 months. Man these all make store mollies look so crappy. I have a huge young male on the wild black spotted latipinna x petenensis cross sexing out. He is mostly black and already 3 inches. He should easily get to 4 or more inches. The top 1/3 of his dorsal is clear and the bottom 2/3's is black so should look wild when grown.
    Wow! That might "One better" my fishes mail survival story. I've heard that a lot of people use thes new "breather bags". Not to sure what the advantage is if any. My guess is that it allows air in to keep the fish from being gassed eventually


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I fight gibba all the time. It gets everywhere and overgrows. I hate it in the moss. Most infusoria should be plentiful enough so it doesn't matter. Have you gotten any decapped brine shrimp yet?
    Not yet. I really hope I can get some soon. My Grandma is raising some swordtail fry on flake. Man! Do they grow sloooow on that...LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]It's going to be hard to get good growth in the 10. I'd put the bluespots and all the natives in the pond. I think your troubles are only going to start multiplying.
    Ok, I guess that for future reference, we can treat these guys similar to "small" angels. I didn't expect them to be so efficient. If I put them in the pond(even the small one) I'm unsure of if I will be able to recover them later. Even midswimming fish like paradise fish seem to be pretty hard to keep track of in a pond...who knows how hard it would be with these guys hiding in flowerpots or other cover. I'll be moving things around to accomodate the bluespots. The female you sent is starting to get a bit plump and I think she may be due in about 3 weeks. With angels in with your females, do you try to save the fry?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]What all is in the pond?
    A few large goldfish which apparently will eat fry. Even in a fishless pond, I still lose like 60% or more to dragonfly nymphs and the like. I could spread a screen to keep those out(or drop the bluespots in to clear that up) but that would take a year of planning ahead. The small pond I mentioned has no filter and so would be a little importance to the montezumae swords(who, according to the papers you sent, need at least slowly moving water and frequent water changes). Large pond(with the goldfish) does have a pump and waterfall though.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]No never tried a trap. I just drain the tank to 3 inches and use my hand to herd into a net.
    That will probably be a ditch attempt...but I may very well have to do that!

    The trap worked...but not the way I expected. I took a glass jar, added a funnel and some shrimp pellets, and sunk it into the tank. The idea, of course, is to get several of those smaller males and that annoying cull. Of course, the first fish to enter the trap and start nibbling is the adult male! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/confused.gif[/img]

    Then guess who enters but one of the young females!

    A few more fish, once again not the ones the trap was targeting(more females, the 2nd largest male, etc.) and suddenly the fish realize they are contained. After dashing around for a split second, all managed to get out. Finally one of the fish I wanted out went in, and I reach for the trap, but he escaped immediately. From that point until I finally took it out...all the fish were quite wary of going into the trap, but happily took crumbs that fell out.

    Guess I will be using your method.

    Sooo...the trap works. But not on these fish!
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula &#39;Red Dragon&#39;(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

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