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Updates on the ivory montys

  • Thread starter Nflytrap
  • Start date
  • #101
Sounds good!

For the DvD...my comp apparently cannot open whatever file is on there...in fact it doesn't know the format it is in. Think I need a special program to open it? There is a compaq DVD player but this still can't recognize the file.

Great to here on the Mambova! If your friends package is manageable I may jump for them. Again, assuming they(objects in friends package) are eggs.



Btw, in the article you sent, the author mentions "Aquarium Strain Kayuni" contradiction? Not to sure how important the other numbers and letters like ZAM as it claims, say, 17th collection of the year though we don't know where that is. Who keeps records? On a note of interest, a Fp. gardneri egg auction caught my eye as it had a set of letters and numbers attached to a new location code-first time I've seen that for gardneri which is usually labeled something like 'Nsukka'

Also, I'm under the impression Trichopsis pumilus doesn't like things cold? It is a pretty fish and my LFS occasionally carries it. Wonder if P. dayi or cupanus would be more suitable(though they might eat fry).

Also, in Chemistry the teacher brought up something interesting by mentioning how in winter the Plains Indians would erect a small teepe inside a larger one forming what he called an "air jacket"...and he claimed that air is a lousy conductor of heat. Sounds like a thought, so I'm going to redo a bit on the critter keepers "insulation".
 
  • #102
Hi N,

OK, A COUPLE OF Mambova pairs are yours. They are nice little fatsos.

Pygmy cROAKERS DO like it warm and dayi would be to big and would eat fry.

No one keeps location records really. It's an honor system. Collectors establish a label for their collection which is usually the country, followed by a location, followed by the collectors' initials, followed by the year and the number of the site. Older locations may just have the location by the species name. This was started due to infertility between related populations of one species and for the description needs for scientists when naming new species. ZAM would stand for Zambia; kAYUNI for the area of Zambia where they were collected; letters and numbers for people's names and year and site number.

Yeah, the dvd only plays on some systems. My club is seeing it early next month and then I will loan you the better copy. Try yours on a few friend's dvd's as it plays nicely on some.

Bobby
 
  • #103
Biggun: Dunno what you mean by a couple pair, but I kinda doubt I would have room for any more than 2 pair.

So what purpose does the site number serve?
 
  • #104
Hi N,

Ok 2 pair. The site number is the exact physical location of the population. The number has latitude and longitude, roads, village, etc attached to it in the notes. Any package yet? The picta, vittata and plain monties came in. Look good but small size wise due to feeding more than just age.

Bobby
 
  • #105
Ok, thats what I thought. So they keep these notes to themselves to keep the exact location secret to public and offer it only to certain people(maybe other collectors planning another collection).

Also, when they mention that Nothobranchius live in small bodies of water, how small are they talking about? Many seem to be worded in a way that mentions a small puddle(which seems unlikely). My guess is that the nothos would end up in a large shallow depression like the vernal pools we have here. How big they are I dunno. Also, on cincikillies.org one article mentioned N. ocellatus, saying that they are very aggresive and there are seldom more than 6-8 per pool in the wild? Also makes me wonder how crowded the nothos are in the pools, and if eggs are ever transfered between any neighboring pools perhaps by floods. There's also the thing that they live in dry places like fairy or brine shrimp...but seeing that the eggs must be incubated at pretty good moisture levels i'm guessing the dry season is when there is simply no puddles...or perhaps maybe only a crust forms over the soil, and the eggs which have been buried underneath it survive.


Just curious, but will nothobranchius react to a mirror in the same way, say, a betta would?

Haven't seen the package yet. Maybe on Monday?

Got Hikari frozen bloodworms in a flat pack but have yet to try it out.

How old are the Kafuensis? The article you sent mentions that the author(Bob Morenski) usually sets them up for breeding at 2-3 months...these things must grow pretty fast!

Keep me updated on those new arrivals of yours!


On a note of interest, I remember one time several years ago when I was going to move a group of baby kribs to the 46 gallon bowfront. I got them into the yogurt tub without problems...but when I released one the paradise fish promptly gobbled it. However, I decided to try to add a couple but this time put them near the bottom. Sure enough, when they were on the bottom, they were ignored by the paradise fish for the most part. They were most vulnerable while falling through open water. While a couple did get eaten, next June I traded in a group of small-just starting to sex out kribs for 40 dollars or so in store credit.
 
  • #106
Hi N,

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Ok, thats what I thought. So they keep these notes to themselves to keep the exact location secret to public and offer it only to certain people(maybe other collectors planning another collection).


Only if its a potential new species that must be described. Once the species is described the location is published. Killie guys are a pretty open group.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Also, when they mention that Nothobranchius live in small bodies of water, how small are they talking about? Many seem to be worded in a way that mentions a small puddle(which seems unlikely). My guess is that the nothos would end up in a large shallow depression like the vernal pools we have here. How big they are I dunno.


They can be quite large like a pond or just a roadside ditch that is small or all along the road or a mashy grassy bog that goes on forever. If it floods populations can get moved around or even destroyed. Some ponds are near rivers. I will send you a dvd on collecting Nothos with the breeding one next month. Its by Dr. Watters who is the world's authority on Nothos. He may be speaking in San Francisco in April at the killie convention there. Think about going. It's a great weekend affair.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Also, on cincikillies.org one article mentioned N. ocellatus, saying that they are very aggresive and there are seldom more than 6-8 per pool in the wild? Also makes me wonder how crowded the nothos are in the pools, and if eggs are ever transfered between any neighboring pools perhaps by floods.

Oh, ocellatus is a killer -- a big predator. Only a few live in a pond and they eat small Nothos. They are very difficult to breed and feed. Morenski rasies them. The fry literally eat one another as do the adults. The Megalebias in South America do the same thing. Their eggs can be bigger than a beebee -- I used to raise Meg. elongatus years ago. I had to have feeder guppies and earthworms all the time!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
There's also the thing that they live in dry places like fairy or brine shrimp...but seeing that the eggs must be incubated at pretty good moisture levels i'm guessing the dry season is when there is simply no puddles...or perhaps maybe only a crust forms over the soil, and the eggs which have been buried underneath it survive.

I think things may get drier in the wild but really dry in captivity doesn't work. I think its the small amount of peat used in storage which is why I always use a pint to a quart for breeding and storage. Incubation goes better. The water in nature goes and the surface cracks but moisture stays in the deeper parts of the dirt.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Just curious, but will nothobranchius react to a mirror in the same way, say, a betta would?

Nope but furzeri has the expandable gills like a Betta and will show them to another male. Bad thing is they only live 6 months -- literally -- and their eggs take from 6 weeks to 9 months to hatch. They come from areas of very erratic rainfall so the eggs have adapted to a broad range of development times to insure survival. I'm hoping to get some of the new collections of furzeri from Italy. They are gorgeous -- a green/yellow/red form and a red form.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Haven't seen the package yet. Maybe on Monday?

Let me check.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Got Hikari frozen bloodworms in a flat pack but have yet to try it out.

Cool.


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
How old are the Kafuensis? The article you sent mentions that the author(Bob Morenski) usually sets them up for breeding at 2-3 months...these things must grow pretty fast!

Mine are around 6-7 weeks now and half grown but fully developed. Let me know when you want yours. They are all the reds but maybe a little intermediate. The males are so fine. Annual killies mature in 4-5 months and sex out in 3-5 weeks. They are fast and are the perfect fish for the home hobbyist/breeder as you can control all aspects of their life cycle.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Keep me updated on those new arrivals of yours!

One new monty died and the snails got it. The rest are ok but all species are skinny. It's conditioning time -- unless they have worms -- ugh.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
On a note of interest, I remember one time several years ago when I was going to move a group of baby kribs to the 46 gallon bowfront. I got them into the yogurt tub without problems...but when I released one the paradise fish promptly gobbled it. However, I decided to try to add a couple but this time put them near the bottom. Sure enough, when they were on the bottom, they were ignored by the paradise fish for the most part. They were most vulnerable while falling through open water. While a couple did get eaten, next June I traded in a group of small-just starting to sex out kribs for 40 dollars or so in store credit.

Fish are funny about eating fry. It never fails to amaze me what will survive when it shouldn't. I wish I could get that roundtail Paradisefish!

You should see my calabarica tank -- their are young adults everywhere -- full house. Such a different outcome from my first 2 pairs.

I sent the kretseri to a breeder friend who had a spawning pair and my male is already building a nest for him. I hope he can breed my pair too and we get lots of fry to distribute.

Bobby
 
  • #107
Wow, hard to imagine something eating other nothos, but hey, thats the way things go. Kinda like wondering whyat eats zebra plecos or discus in the wild.  
smile_n_32.gif


For the kafuensis(perhaps we should abbreviate em as KAF) when you say a bit intermediate do you mean these Red form show a bit of blue or there are a few intermediates mixed in?

Sorry to here about the 1 monty.  I'm assuming by worms you mean camallanus worms? I haven't had experience them, and they seem pretty nasty. Just curious, but would getting them from eggs eliminate the worm problem for killies?

On the topic of disease, the article mentions "Notho Fade Disease" as a disease kafuensis is quite vulnerable to-have you experienced it?

BTw, have you seen Fp. gardneri 'Mamfese'(sp.) by any chance? A few images of this came up on google and it looks very different from most of the other gardneri locations.

Also, any updates on those fairy shrimp? I was looking back I noticed that.
 
  • #108
"Wow, hard to imagine something eating other nothos, but hey, thats the way things go. Kinda like wondering whyat eats zebra plecos or discus in the wild.

For the kafuensis(perhaps we should abbreviate em as KAF) when you say a bit intermediate do you mean these Red form show a bit of blue or there are a few intermediates mixed in?"


I'm not sure yet. I think mainly red but I have not seen enough to tell to really tell the types.


"Sorry to here about the 1 monty. I'm assuming by worms you mean camallanus worms?"

Maybe, but I don't see anything. The fish are just too thin. They are eating well and the way I feed it won't be long. People must kind of wonder when they get my "fat" fish
smile.gif
.


"I haven't had experience them, and they seem pretty nasty. Just curious, but would getting them from eggs eliminate the worm problem for killies?"


Not always from what I hear but it is rare and there are treatments. Glugea is worse with Nothos -- an internal bug. Flubendazole 5% works well on Glugea. Lavamsol (spelling?) on the Callmanus worms.

"On the topic of disease, the article mentions "Notho Fade Disease" as a disease kafuensis is quite vulnerable to-have you experienced it?"

Once when the temperature got too high and the air was too low. Nothos need 2-3 daily small feedings of good food, slow, slow slow filtration and clean water. Notho wasting is usually stress related from environment. Blackworms in clean calm water usually prevents it. Flubendazole 5% plus live baby brine shrimp feedings, and 74F temp. usually brings them back.


"BTw, have you seen Fp. gardneri 'Mamfese'(sp.) by any chance? A few images of this came up on google and it looks very different from most of the other gardneri locations."


Yes, but I forget its look. There are some gorgeous gardneri and gardneri is a bold hardy fish but a bit aggressive.


"Also, any updates on those fairy shrimp? I was looking back I noticed that."

My friend lost them but he had great success for a while. They hatch after a few days in really dry peat and lay tons of eggs.

Your surprise should be shipped next week if all goes well. I checked. Should I send the Mambova this weekend?

Bobby
 
  • #109
Bobby: That may work. I've been doing some tests to see if I can keep the temp up high enough for them.

Also, if they are in a tank with sand...will they lay eggs in the sand? Any way to salvage these ones?

What constitutes "slow" filtration. One guy on Killitalk claimed that he losts many nothos do to an airstone. I have an old fluval filter which eventually becomes so clogged up you can't tell its running...but when it is clean there is a noticeable current. If I directed it to the glass would that work?
 
  • #111
Hi N,

Nothos will spawn in sand although I don't like it. Keep the layer very thin to avoid pollution problems. You can take the fish out and gently store the sand and see the eggs come out or you can siphon the sand into a bucket. The sand will settle fast and then take a net and do a figure 8 briskly in the water and you should collect alot of eggs that way. I still believe bare bottom tanks painted flat black on the outside bottom and a bowl of boiled, rinsed peat is the best.

A fluval is too much even dirty. Just use old fashion corner filters with a bit of floss at the bottom and then small gravel on top of that to the top of the filter box. Makes a great little biological filter. Have the air running slow so you can almost but not quite count the bubbles coming out the lift tube. Sponge filters work too. No power filters.

The new fish are doing well. I really like the Limias. He is sending another population of the Limias and some of the red picta. Another friend is sending more blue gularis and returning some of my old zonatus FINCA to me -- that is a spectacular fish. I am happy about that. The lacortei are all sexed out now and the arnoldi and gave me great sex ratios. Let me know on the kafuensis --- Sat. after this one?

Bobby
 
  • #112
You could do it next week if you wish. I will be removing some sand, and then things should be ready.

Great to here on the new arrivals! Keep me updated when the rest come in. Mind telling me how the limias are like?

BTw, the surprise package should be floating in the mail?

Also, how do you store large quantities of blackworms? as of now I usually just get a large container to put them in...some mention putting them in the fridge. Have you ever tried culturing them?
 
  • #113
Hi N,

I will send next Sat. Shoot me your address again even though I think I have it.

Not sure on the package. Just keep expecting it.

I store blackworms in the crisper of my frig. I take an eight by eight plastic leftovers container that is 4 inches high and I poke many tiny pin holes in the top. I keep the worms inside in just enough de-chlorinated water to barely cover them. I wash them daily in ice cold de-chlorinated water -- very important. They last for weeks. I will store 1/2 pound like this. A friend just uses an old ice chest with freezer packs around the worm container to keep it cool and he rotates the freezer packs every day. His wife is anti-worms in the frig. Clean, cold, shallow water is the key.

Bobby
 
  • #114
Sounds good. Tell me when they are sent. If you want you can toss in an extra female as protection against Murphys law.

My mom would never give up crisper space for a container of worms...guess I will be stuck with my current method.

Here is a pic of Fp. gardneri Mamfese

http://www.killi.co.uk/graphics/mamfensis.jpg

Nice fish, but as far as gardneri goes I would be willing to settle for Misaje, Makurdi, or perhaps N'sukka...which seems less coloful than the others.
 
  • #115
I got the package, and am quite impressed! Apparently someone was playing secret Santa...
smile_n_32.gif


Some questions...

I received 4 bags total, 2 of kafuensis and 2 of orthonotus...have you kept orthonotus before? Funny, the Chunga are scheduled to hatch within 3 days of my birthday! The kafuensis are coded with 4 stars and the orthonotus 3.

Edit: Even through the bag, I could spot eggs in most of them. I shook the chunga one around to look just in case. They aren't covered in debris or as small as I expected...and are an amber color. They are much smaller than A. lineatus eggs though! LOL

Also, what guidelines would you give for keeping populations seperate? I'm kinda unsure if I would be able to spot a Mambova if it jumped over into, say, a tank which I kept Chunga.

I haven't done much research on orthonotus, but I'm thinking it would be in the best interests of the 2 locations if I sent/traded one bag to someone with facilities for them. Perhaps I could trade them for some kind of Fundulopanchax or other fish for my 46.
 
  • #116
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Nflytrap @ Oct. 28 2004,8:28)]
Hi N,

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I got the package, and am quite impressed! Apparently someone was playing secret Santa...
smile_n_32.gif


Yep! And it seems Bob gave you even more than I asked him to.


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I received 4 bags total, 2 of kafuensis and 2 of orthonotus...have you kept orthonotus before? Funny, the Chunga are scheduled to hatch within 3 days of my birthday! The kafuensis are coded with 4 stars and the orthonotus 3.


I forget what Bob's 4 stars mean. I think its the # of eggs -- more stars means more eggs. I had 2 forms of orthonotus years ago. They were hardy easy fish to keep. The secret with Nothos is live food, clean water, breeding in slightly soft acid water but keeping and raising in hard alkaline, peat moss, storage at the right moisture level and temp. It sounds tough but it is easy. Nothos are the prettiest, boldest and easiest annuals. Just watch the males fighting. I thought you could hatch 2 forms of kafuensis and decide what you like and orthonotus can be a big strong neat red fish. Your LFS should like the extras. Now you can really set up your fishroom rack!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Edit: Even through the bag, I could spot eggs in most of them. I shook the chunga one around to look just in case. They aren't covered in debris or as small as I expected...and are an amber color. They are much smaller than A. lineatus eggs though! LOL


Yes, they are and if you can see them so easily then there are MANY in the peat! Expect large hatches. Have green water, a good grown of java moss and bbs ready when you are ready to hatch.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Also, what guidelines would you give for keeping populations seperate? I'm kinda unsure if I would be able to spot a Mambova if it jumped over into, say, a tank which I kept Chunga.


Just keep the tanks well covered and never mix the females as they all look exactly alike. There is no other way. Nothos jump so you want good covers anyway. You know you can buy the big plastic steralite storage containers to raise fry -- 10-20 gallons but 10 gallon tanks are better. Start checking gargage sales, junk/antique/furniture stores, the Salvation Army, trash days, leakers at fishstores that can be resealed. One can find free tanks with a little effort. Killies are easy as they just need water, a corner filter, an air pump going slow, some cover and a tank cover and you can raise the fry.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I haven't done much research on orthonotus, but I'm thinking it would be in the best interests of the 2 locations if I sent/traded one bag to someone with facilities for them. Perhaps I could trade them for some kind of Fundulopanchax or other fish for my 46.

Feel free to trade them off for Fundulopanchax. I have the small arnoldi if you want those for the 46.

Oh, yes 2 males and 3 females of the Mambova are on the way to you and should arrive Monday or Tuesday. Feed them alot of chopped blackworms at first to help them settle in. Keep the water current very low from the corner filter as fast water will cause Notho "fade". Give them plant cover.


Bobby
 
  • #117
Great! How are your arrivals doing?

 Someone on the mailing list really wants the orthonotus-he has a pair of blue gularis but fry eating would be a problem. He also has several other Notho species-the ones that stood out were N. kilomberensis, N. fuliminantis(sp.) and N. palmqvisti.

3 stars means 36-100....4 stars means 100-500
smile_l_32.gif
...those are pretty big ranges! LOL

I picked up 2 rubbermaids yesterday-gonna have to invent some kind of makeshift lid for them...LOL The fry jump too I assume? I have the fry tubs on the very bottom which allows them to be quickly moved under the rack when guests are over and then pull out for inspection/maintenance. So far, it has worked well for a few newt larvae i'm raising.

I will keep an eye open on the Mambova.

How do you care for the eggs? I have been watching them and added a tiny dampened paper towel for added moisture.

Again, thanks for all this! You've been a great friend and an invaluable help.
 
  • #118
Edit: I took a few photos of the eggs that were on the outside-are these anything to worry about. I would think they would work well as indicator eggs as to when it may be time to hatch etc. etc.

kayuniegg.jpg

N. kafuensis Kayuni 97/9

Kayuniegg2.jpg


Nhanguegg.jpg

N. orthonotus Nhangau MT 03-4
 
  • #119
Hi N,

My pleasure helping. People helped me in the killie hobby when I started.

The kilomberensis is a great species and easy. The gularis might be a good population control once you have a good 1-2 inch crop of monty fry. I'd get the gularis and try. They are so lovely and showy and get to know you like cichlids.

The eggs only require checking for moisture and the 74-78 F temp. Check them once a week. Pinching a tiny bit between the fingers and feeling moisture is a good sign. Leaving those eggs on the outside is a good indicator but these species incubation periods are pretty well known in the correct temp. range. Leave air in the bag. Just sit back and wait.

Didn't the rubbermaids come with tops? Just drill holes in those. The fry jump less and you can keep the water level lower -- 4 inches below the top.

All my new guys are doing great -- getting fat. I must have 50 of the picta. The Limias have already dropped a few fry. They make great dither fish for the shy lacortei.

The egg pics are great. I need you here to photograph all my stuff!

Bobby
 
  • #120
Heheh...I wouldn't say that i'm any good at photography-just that I've got a camera that works well enough. You also have to know the fish-like where it is going to go while the camera is delaying the shot
confused.gif
.

The Mambova arrived today. You mentioned they were "Red Form" but they show quite a bit of blue also. Even when they haven't colored up completely, they are great lookers and I'm impressed with the size on the 2 males! The larger female arrived dead-thats Murphys law in action I guess. I havesome photos of em...but they aren't all that impressive. I saw one female showing interest in the blackworms, but so far haven't seen anyone feeding. They also seem easily spooked by light changes. One of the males seems to spend a lot of time nosing around in the thin sand with his body almost vertical. Is that normal? This one is clearly the dominant male, kinda unevenly sized match! Should I use a divider to split the 2?




Also, my so call "rubbermaids" are actually called "dishpans". They are about 5 inches deep and rectangular. Providing I can fashion a good lid, then They'll be in business.
 
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