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Updates on the ivory montys

  • Thread starter Nflytrap
  • Start date
  • #21
[b said:
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The young males are often using sneak mating tactics, which seem more effective than displaying. I'm thinking of removing some to the pond, but i'm unsure of what to do with the smaller males. Perhaps do a cross of some sort? Have you ever tried crossing montezumae into highfin or lyretail swordtails?

Actually I have one young male (monty x helleri) x hi fin helleri growing up and my friend in florida who made the monty x helleri cross is sending me some females from a back cross he did between the (monty x helleri) and just a red velvet low fin helleri. The m x h cross was so infertile after 3 generations that we both went back to the helleri males. It seems the m x h females were fertile somewhat but the males were duds. So now hopefully I can cross this hi fin hybrid to the backcrosssed hybrids and get fry. The lyretail cross will be tough unless the hybrid males are fertile. My friend says the backcross still has the long long sword which was what he was going for. The round dorsal gets lost -- so far. I want to cross nezzies to hi fin variatus and get a hi fin nezzie. That could be cool.

Get the little males out as they will do all the breeding with those sneak attacks.


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Thats pretty impressive. My cruddy(but hardy) petstore strain swordtails seldom lived over 1 year and a half, and by that time you could tell they were winded. They were at there prime in 6-7 months...diss of being tiny I guess.

If you keep them around 72-74F they live longer as they grow slower. You can make store swords large if you raise virgin females and keep selecting the big males that develop late (if the strain still has the gene). In a few generations you can have 4 inch fish. Plus feed 3-6 times a day; at least 2 live baby brine feedings, big tanks and 2 80% water changes a week. They just raise and sell the store swords so fast.


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I've seen BBS in little vials and in cans. How long does the smallest can last? I assume if you arent fast enough you will have a whole bunch of "mummies". Guess I will find him in the phonebook...or do you have an email? Do you know of any club situated in Fresno?

The eggs last a long time if kept dry and cool. Alot of people keep them in the freezer but I do not as I worry about moisture. I keep mine in the 70's and use a 16oz can in 2 months and get good hatches. Always buy from places like brineshrimpdirect and just get a 2 oz can to start and see how it goes. Roger Brousseau's email is: <dr_rog@yahoo.com>. He may collecting in Brazil right now but email him. He is a very nice guy and can put you in touch with great killie guys in your area. Killie guys always have other rare fish too and real fishrooms with livefoods. Great people to know. Roger has an excellent book on south american killies. Just give him my name. I think he is in Sacramento but I forget.


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I heard that they often spawn under cryptocryne leaves. I spawned paradise fish(first egglayer!) under a lid from a yogurt container. Only diss was that it tended to tip and eject parts of the nest. I wish I could try P. dayii, but i'm short on room as of now.

dayii is pretty much like kretseri. I need to get a crypt or anubias in there can't believe I ignored that choice! Thanks for the reminder. The germans have all kinds of wild regular paradise that are gorgeous. Look at the german lybrinthfish association webpage -- intense color. I want the roundtail paradise from China. It can take being outside all year here as it needs the 40's in winter to do well.


[b said:
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Hets laying eggs? Naw...Whats it like?

Oh they embrace like paradise fish and lay eggs under a crypt leaf. Very interesting to watch.

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I will try the nighttime stalking thing on the cull and some smaller males. That cull is starting to make me mad...eating so much!

LOL. In the wild monties will jump 3 feet up a water fall to escape netting i am told!

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Also, after SIX days in the mail, the bluespotted sunnies finally arrived. The guy on the other end made a bit of a mistake and sent them out on wednesday(he normally only ships on Monday). They didn't arrive on friday or Saturday...and Sunday and 4th of July holiday added another 2 days.

Someone was not thinking.

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Luckily almost everyone made it, and he through in tons of extras. I think I have at least 8...counting juvies. 3 died on the way, one larger juvie and 2 small ones. I've managed to get them to eat live blackworms and frozen bloodworms. He also stuck in a tadpole madtom(basically a mini(2inches...will grow to 4) channel cat), a central mudminnow(little relative of the pike...definetly not going in with any small fish!), and a tesselated darter(but this one died on the way). None of the extras are in with the monties.

Sounds like you have a great native pond going now. really keep those away from the monties. I have a deep distrust of all of those fish.

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Thanks! Go ahead and give me a report on the show-never been to one. You entering any of your fish?

I never made it as I came down with a cold and just didn't fel up to it. I was going to enter some huge Nothobranchius kafuensis Mambova I have. It's a new location and very robust. I have a bunch of eggs so I hope to have lots of fry in 2 months or more.

My Gnatholebias gave me 5 females and 11 males so I am pretty happy. Now 5 pair go in a 30 for community egg laying. They blow peat out of an 8 inch bowl like bombs -- it goes everywhere when they dive to lay eggs. Amazing.

The replacement P. petenensis are to be shipped tomorrow. I can't wait. A friend tried to bring back 3 locations of velifera, P. orri and P. salavoris from the Yucatan but he didn't get permits so the airport took them away. He has collected Endler's in Venezuela and has fantastic strains. He is sending me some Poceilia picta, a neat guppy like livebearer. He has a great cross between wild florida P. latipinna and wild P. petenensis mollies that I have. They are marbed and get to 4 inches with big sails. Really nice hardy regular mollies. His whole yard in florida is ponds so he has great fish.

Bobby
 
  • #22
Let me know how the pertensis turn out! Too bad you didn't get to go to the show. I bet you would have done very well!
smile.gif


I was away for one week, so the tanks and other things were left in the care of my sister...along with 3 pages of instructions. Everything worked out great, probably due to the fact that I included water changes in the instructions(something I didn't last year which caused a beautiful algae outbreak). The 46 gallon is doing awesome! I've started using Flourish and the plants are running away from me. The elodea stand grew all the way across the tank, and 3 water lettuce plants turned into like 10 when I got back...
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The java moss is growing very nicely, and makes an excellent foreground. Unfortuanately, somehow a few bits of U. gibba are running around in the tank. I don't mind how they look, but I wonder if they will eat the organisms the fry like(or maybe they have some beneficial thing about them?).

Despite all the cover, many monty fry dissapeared, probably due to the bluespots and the fact that the feeding schedule was changed a bit so they only got fed once every 2 days. I'm hoping I can wean them down to something a bit easier to portion the frozen bloodworms...one takes interest in the freeze dried daphnia but the rest will spit it out.

Since I don't want to lose too many fry(but I don't mind a bit of natural selection going on), I'm thinking of putting the dingy ten gallon to work as a growout tank to raise them for the first several weeks when they are most vulnerable. If possible, I will not remove the females and just catch whatever fry survive and raise them to good size. When I judge them big enough to go into the tank(or the females produce another batch) then they will be released into the 46 gallon bowfront at night. I've also been considering my pond...but throwing lots of little fry in there(almost sure to be eaten) doesn't seem like a good way to start a population.

The madtom seems pretty innocent, as all he does is hide under a few rocks during the daytime. He certainly could be a problem for fish that sleep on the bottom though. The sucking action is not as efficient as some other fish I've seen, and during the day he refuses to move more than half an inch to get food.

The mudminnow is confined to a 3 gallon critterkeeper with java ferns and 2 inches of water for now. That might seem bad, but at this time he could easily be boiling in wet mud under the midday sun in the wild. He acts just like his larger pike namesake when he stalks small blackworms and other tidbits I give him. Though his mouth is very small compared to the pike, I think he could probably down a full grown heterandria formosa with some effort. I may jazz up his tank a bit so its more presentable sometime.

I tried stalking the monties at night, but maybe I couldn't stay up late enough as I observed they were slowly swimming midwater...I'm going to billow out a large net on one side and see if I can herd some in during the night. Have you ever tried a fish trap of any sort?
 
  • #23
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Let me know how the pertensis turn out! Too bad you didn't get to go to the show. I bet you would have done very well!

The second shipment of petenensis came in with the bag busted -- I hate breathable bags! The post office put the whole box in a big sealed yellow plastic bag so some moisture stayed in. It was a miracle but 12 of the mollies were alive in the wetness. They are happy and healthy now but I will get more to be sure to have a good population. They are shaped like the liberty mollies but with sailfins and the small black swords when mature. The veliferas are looking spectacular -- getting big, lots of sparkling, thick and active. I can't wait until 6 months. Man these all make store mollies look so crappy. I have a huge young male on the wild black spotted latipinna x petenensis cross sexing out. He is mostly black and already 3 inches. He should easily get to 4 or more inches. The top 1/3 of his dorsal is clear and the bottom 2/3's is black so should look wild when grown.


[b said:
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I was away for one week, so the tanks and other things were left in the care of my sister...along with 3 pages of instructions. Everything worked out great, probably due to the fact that I included water changes in the instructions(something I didn't last year which caused a beautiful algae outbreak). The 46 gallon is doing awesome! I've started using Flourish and the plants are running away from me. The elodea stand grew all the way across the tank, and 3 water lettuce plants turned into like 10 when I got back... The java moss is growing very nicely, and makes an excellent foreground. Unfortuanately, somehow a few bits of U. gibba are running around in the tank. I don't mind how they look, but I wonder if they will eat the organisms the fry like(or maybe they have some beneficial thing about them?).

I fight gibba all the time. It gets everywhere and overgrows. I hate it in the moss. Most infusoria should be plentiful enough so it doesn't matter. Have you gotten any decapped brine shrimp yet?

[b said:
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Despite all the cover, many monty fry dissapeared, probably due to the bluespots and the fact that the feeding schedule was changed a bit so they only got fed once every 2 days. I'm hoping I can wean them down to something a bit easier to portion the frozen bloodworms...one takes interest in the freeze dried daphnia but the rest will spit it out.

Smart to do the every 2 days feeding. I think the bluespots will keep your monty population down to zero growth. My angels certainly do. I have 9 young pregnant females now. I think some of my males may be larger than the parents -- I hope! Try brineshrimpdirect's freeze dried bloodworms -- good stuff and cheaper than the store's.

[b said:
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Since I don't want to lose too many fry(but I don't mind a bit of natural selection going on), I'm thinking of putting the dingy ten gallon to work as a growout tank to raise them for the first several weeks when they are most vulnerable. If possible, I will not remove the females and just catch whatever fry survive and raise them to good size. When I judge them big enough to go into the tank(or the females produce another batch) then they will be released into the 46 gallon bowfront at night.

It's going to be hard to get good growth in the 10. I'd put the bluespots and all the natives in the pond. I think your troubles are only going to start multiplying.

[b said:
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I've also been considering my pond...but throwing lots of little fry in there(almost sure to be eaten) doesn't seem like a good way to start a population.

What all is in the pond?

[b said:
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The madtom seems pretty innocent,

don't bet on it.

[b said:
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as all he does is hide under a few rocks during the daytime. He certainly could be a problem for fish that sleep on the bottom though.

bingo! Night time predator.


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I tried stalking the monties at night, but maybe I couldn't stay up late enough as I observed they were slowly swimming midwater...I'm going to billow out a large net on one side and see if I can herd some in during the night. Have you ever tried a fish trap of any sort?

No never tried a trap. I just drain the tank to 3 inches and use my hand to herd into a net.

Bobby
 
  • #24
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The second shipment of petenensis came in with the bag busted -- I hate breathable bags! The post office put the whole box in a big sealed yellow plastic bag so some moisture stayed in. It was a miracle but 12 of the mollies were alive in the wetness. They are happy and healthy now but I will get more to be sure to have a good population. They are shaped like the liberty mollies but with sailfins and the small black swords when mature. The veliferas are looking spectacular -- getting big, lots of sparkling, thick and active. I can't wait until 6 months. Man these all make store mollies look so crappy. I have a huge young male on the wild black spotted latipinna x petenensis cross sexing out. He is mostly black and already 3 inches. He should easily get to 4 or more inches. The top 1/3 of his dorsal is clear and the bottom 2/3's is black so should look wild when grown.
Wow! That might "One better" my fishes mail survival story. I've heard that a lot of people use thes new "breather bags". Not to sure what the advantage is if any. My guess is that it allows air in to keep the fish from being gassed eventually


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I fight gibba all the time. It gets everywhere and overgrows. I hate it in the moss. Most infusoria should be plentiful enough so it doesn't matter. Have you gotten any decapped brine shrimp yet?
Not yet. I really hope I can get some soon. My Grandma is raising some swordtail fry on flake. Man! Do they grow sloooow on that...LOL

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It's going to be hard to get good growth in the 10. I'd put the bluespots and all the natives in the pond. I think your troubles are only going to start multiplying.
Ok, I guess that for future reference, we can treat these guys similar to "small" angels. I didn't expect them to be so efficient. If I put them in the pond(even the small one) I'm unsure of if I will be able to recover them later. Even midswimming fish like paradise fish seem to be pretty hard to keep track of in a pond...who knows how hard it would be with these guys hiding in flowerpots or other cover. I'll be moving things around to accomodate the bluespots. The female you sent is starting to get a bit plump and I think she may be due in about 3 weeks. With angels in with your females, do you try to save the fry?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]What all is in the pond?
A few large goldfish which apparently will eat fry. Even in a fishless pond, I still lose like 60% or more to dragonfly nymphs and the like. I could spread a screen to keep those out(or drop the bluespots in to clear that up) but that would take a year of planning ahead. The small pond I mentioned has no filter and so would be a little importance to the montezumae swords(who, according to the papers you sent, need at least slowly moving water and frequent water changes). Large pond(with the goldfish) does have a pump and waterfall though.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]No never tried a trap. I just drain the tank to 3 inches and use my hand to herd into a net.
That will probably be a ditch attempt...but I may very well have to do that!

The trap worked...but not the way I expected. I took a glass jar, added a funnel and some shrimp pellets, and sunk it into the tank. The idea, of course, is to get several of those smaller males and that annoying cull. Of course, the first fish to enter the trap and start nibbling is the adult male!  
confused.gif


Then guess who enters but one of the young females!

A few more fish, once again not the ones the trap was targeting(more females, the 2nd largest male, etc.) and suddenly the fish realize they are contained. After dashing around for a split second, all managed to get out. Finally one of the fish I wanted out went in, and I reach for the trap, but he escaped immediately. From that point until I finally took it out...all the fish were quite wary of going into the trap, but happily took crumbs that fell out.

Guess I will be using your method.

Sooo...the trap works. But not on these fish!
 
  • #25
All but 2 of the bluespots have been removed. The last two should be cake but I'm waiting now as the fish seem to have stressed out over having the net in the tank and me moving stuff around.

The young females are looking plump again too.
 
  • #26
Hi Nflytrap,

   How the monties? Females getting plumper? All of my girls are getting fat. I took the angels out so the next 2 batches of fry should make it.

The young males do look like they have less black than the older ones -- interesting.

The velifera mollies are growing great. They are thick. Some males are sexing out at 3 inches. These are going to be nice fish.

The petenensis are growing too but are longer and thinner. I only had 14 survive the transit so we shall see. One has a short spine so its out. Can't wait to see the swords develop.

My zonatus sexed out to 7 pairs but 2 females are belly sliders. They are gorgeous as always. Green/blue bodies with burnt orange patterning and huge fins with an orange anal fin like a male Betta splendens and streamers off the top rays of the caudal -- too fine. They are trying to dive into the gravel to breed.

I sold off all the fallax except breeding stock. I got $150 worth of supplies for them.

The Nothobranchius kafuensis Nazhilia sexed out to 2 males and 5 females and are very nice.

The kretseri still refuse to do anything even at 82F. Ugh. One pair from this batch spawned for a friend and he got 20 fry.

My female gold marble pearl angel has pop eye --ugh.

I have a black male latipinna x petenensis molly that is going to be huge. He is 4 inches and just developing. I say he will be 5 inches when he is through.

I have some eggs to hatch next month so I am hoping -- M. lacortei, F. arnoldi and N. kafuensis Mambova -- good stuff.

Well, that's all. Talk later.

Bobby
 
  • #27
Edit: Whoops, not logged in!

Yup, the females are getting plump again. I think the younger females may be faster than the older one as far as broods go. The males have grown large enough that some can be confused with the full grown male in the tank. 2 females havent grown to my knowledge, but looking at them every day you couldn't tell. For the coloration, I think you may be right about them losing color, but since these are my first I can't tell.

The bluespots, btw, didn't seem to mind the move. The day after they were moved into a seperate ten gallon crammed with the java moss(which you sent enough for the foreground and now for this tank) and fern-the male took up his spawning colors. He was a deep purple black(seller describes it as indigo, but i'm not good with colors) and while flaring to the females was almost as dark as a piece of coal. His body gave off an nice purple shine, while the white spots were tinted with ice blue. The action seems to have fallen off...so perhaps I will get eggs next year.

BTw, I'm not sure if it was from your daphnia or from the ones I myself collected almost a year ago, but one of the critter keepers containing blackworms suddenly sprouted a daphnia culuture! I picked up a small sweaterbox at the dollar store to set up another daphnia culture-now I have two. Looks like all the fish may enjoy some good munchies.

Bad news on the grindals-they seem to have dissapeared. Everything was going great, and soon I was seeing the seething mass of worms attacking shrimp pellets and cheerios that everyone describes. Then, right when I was about ready to harvest them, they all dissapeared! Digging through the substrate revealed only a few worms...which seem to have dissapeared by now too. I also discovered 2 millipedes in the dirt with them. I'm unsure of whether or not these millipedes consumed the grindals...but I can't think of any other explanation.

For the kretseri, how'd your friend manage it?

All, this killie talk is making me albit interested in killifish to say the least. I've only kept aplocheilus and right now a single bluefin killifish(I pulled a reverse trio from a ghost shrimp feeder tank, but I killed the female in a preventable accident
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)

Whats your method for all those nothos? There seem to be as many techniques as people...lol
 
  • #28
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Yup, the females are getting plump again. I think the younger females may be faster than the older one as far as broods go. The males have grown large enough that some can be confused with the full grown male in the tank. 2 females havent grown to my knowledge, but looking at them every day you couldn't tell. For the coloration, I think you may be right about them losing color, but since these are my first I can't tell.

Yeah, we'll just have to see if the black expands with aging but it looks less. All my girls are plump -- 8 of them. I lost another one to belly blow out -- ugh. I think I have a young male who will be bulkier than the rest body wise.

A friend is going to send me some of my old plain monty strain back next month. I like how big they get -- 1-2 inches larger than the spotted in the biggest fish!

[b said:
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The bluespots, btw, didn't seem to mind the move. The day after they were moved into a seperate ten gallon crammed with the java moss(which you sent enough for the foreground and now for this tank) and fern-the male took up his spawning colors. He was a deep purple black(seller describes it as indigo, but i'm not good with colors) and while flaring to the females was almost as dark as a piece of coal. His body gave off an nice purple shine, while the white spots were tinted with ice blue. The action seems to have fallen off...so perhaps I will get eggs next year.

That does sound like a pretty fish. Is there a link to a photo?

[b said:
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BTw, I'm not sure if it was from your daphnia or from the ones I myself collected almost a year ago, but one of the critter keepers containing blackworms suddenly sprouted a daphnia culuture! I picked up a small sweaterbox at the dollar store to set up another daphnia culture-now I have two. Looks like all the fish may enjoy some good munchies.

Big and orange or small and green -- magna or pulex? Pulex has a way of just popping up at times but as its summer I bet its magna. Keep several cultures going and add a sponge filter or at least an airstone if you can. They always crash. Green water feedings are the best for non crashing.

[b said:
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Bad news on the grindals-they seem to have dissapeared. Everything was going great, and soon I was seeing the seething mass of worms attacking shrimp pellets and cheerios that everyone describes. Then, right when I was about ready to harvest them, they all dissapeared! Digging through the substrate revealed only a few worms...which seem to have dissapeared by now too. I also discovered 2 millipedes in the dirt with them. I'm unsure of whether or not these millipedes consumed the grindals...but I can't think of any other explanation.

Is the medium drying out? Keep it real moist. Maybe they will come back. I don't know about millipedes. Check out a place called The Bug Farm on the internet. I think they are near you and sell live foods. Did you ever try contacting Roger Brousseau?

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For the kretseri, how'd your friend manage it?

I have to ask. I was just told he did.

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Whats your method for all those nothos? There seem to be as many techniques as people...lol

Keep it simple. I breed in trios or groups in 10-20 gallon tanks with corner filters running steady but not too strong. I have lots of java fern, moss and anubias with some duckweed. I place a 6-8 inch in diameter 2-3 inch tall weighted down with small stones plastic container filled with an inch of pre-boiled, rinsed peat moss. I collect the peat every 2-4 weeks and dry until damp but flufferable and store at 75-78F in a good plastic bag loosely filled with air and labeled as to hatching date and species. I keep the peats in a styro box with the lid slightly cracked open for circulation. When ready I put the peat in 3 inches of water in a wide low open hatching container maybe 10 x10 inches with soft water with a bit of hard water added for stability and a little najas or java moss. The fry hatch in 5-24 hours and I feeed green water and baby brine shrimp from day one and usually just baby brine from day 2-3. After day 3-4 I add a pint of hard water from a healthy tank every day until i fill up the hatching try -- it's like 6 inches tall. This gets the fry slowly into my tap water's chemistry and out of velvet prone soft acid water. Then its just 2 feedings a day on good live or frozen food (after they grow a bit) and in 4 weeks they sex out and in 3 months they are pretty mature. Nothos do not like strong airflow or filtration. Keep it calm. Breeders are fed blackworms (for fertility), bloodworms, daphnia, grindals, mosquito larvae and brine shrimp. Blackworms are important in the diet. I keep the Nothos in hard water but when I want to breed them I slowly change it over to slightly soft by 1/3 water changes each day for 3 or so days. Breed and hatch in soft and raise and maintain in hard. Many Nothos like easy ones such as guentheri, melanosplius and foerschi breed and hatch well in hard water. That's it. They are small, active, bold, gorgeous fish that live only one year or so. They can be very prolific too. Check out the great site called Nothobranchius Information Centre -- it will knock your socks off.

Bobby
 
  • #29
Hmmm....here is a (very cruddy) picture. The male was darker in life and much more vibrant(he was in between displys during this shot)-I tried to set it to lower exposure to get a more realistic effect and he blacked out completely sans the white spots. You can see a bit of the purple sheen that was quite prevalent on him when he was at an angle or displaying to a female. His chest, like that of a paradise fish, was darkest.

blue.jpg



for grindals, the medium was about the consistency of garden soil-guess I will water it a bit. I forgot to contact Roger-and right now am having trouble with getting to my mailbox(on this comp) is he back from his collecting trip?

I'll look the site up. Are there any other reccomendations for good starter nothos? I've seen a few that were red and white on aquabid, but forgot the species(if there was one) and location number....all I remember is that they were up in flames...lol. i'm willing to bet that pretty much all the species are gorgeous in life(off to look for pics).
 
  • #30
Hi Nflytrap,

What a weird looking fish. I've never seen anything like that. Good luck working with them.

Keep the grindals pretty moist, maybe a bit damper than garden soil.

Good starter Nothos are guentheri, foerschi, korthausae and melanospilus. All 2 month incubation periods.

I just hatched what looks like 15 or so Notho. kaufensis Mambova. There were alot more but they were belly sliders which bugs me as I can't tell if they are belly sliders because I wet the peat too soon or too late. If I get a good survival rate and sex ratio you could try a pair or trio of these. I will just have to see how they develop. They are a big thick robust beautiful new Notho. 5 months incubation on the eggs though! I love them. They throw a red, blue and mix color forms. Very interesting patterning.

Bobby
 
  • #31
Update.


Female looks slimmer now....no sign of any babies though. Since this place is so overgrown at the surface I could very well be missing them. Just in case, I sprinkled a bit of Hikari 'First Bites'(it was somewhere round .75 on Big Als couldn't resist it-turned out to be perfect heterandria colony food...fine powder).

Good/ bad news on the bluespots. I found one of the females brutally dead a few days ago. Quite odd...but I guess the amount of javamoss prevented me from seeing the conflict. From previous experience, when a killing happens once and no action is taken another will follow suite. I inserted a plexiglass divider to seperate them. Yesterday and today I turned the plexiglass diagonal to give the female a chance to see the male. She went up to him and again his color darkened and he started to flare and kick with his body. The females eye and the line underneath darkened and she responded. Then they kinda engaged in a "mock fight". Both fish puffed up there gillplates and when ones mouth advanced, the other fish retreated, keeping equal distance all the time(fish were not quite side by side and facing the same direction with heads titled towards opponent). The female was leaning over towards the ground though. The colors on both were breathtaking(marking on females gillplate and eyes brightened up quite a bit). It looked as if the two fish were holding a stick on each side and taking turns pushing it towards the other. Suddenly the pair broke up(guessing someone was going to go a bit farther than mock fighting) After a few more bouts lasting several minutes the female called it a day and went back to the otherside of the plexiglass. Today, she didn't seem as bold. The owner suggested a cooling and then warming, though I'm unsure how to go about that. I can't tell if the female is growing eggs but all that food has to go somewhere! They prefer living food but I have managed to get them to accept frozen bloodworms(but they seem to hunt highly by sight). They will even grab falling pellets if they are in the right spot, but if it hits the ground and stops moving they usuallly lose interest.


For nothobranchius-have you tried coconut coir? It doesn't acidify things as much as peat does...might eliminate the need for weaning them to hard water. Also, do they only accept live foods as mentioned? If so, I'd probably have to have a thriving grindalworm culture and more to feed em.

Off to find the site.
 
  • #32
Hi, Nflytrap,

I think one of my young monty females just dropped a few fry -- maybe 4 -- so your's should be starting soon too. I recently took the adult angels out of the tank so a couple of batches of fry can survive. The angels are in the latipinna x petenensis molly tank. They had dropped 3 batches and I only wanted the first batch of 30 fry for a next generation so in went the angels and a week later I just had the 30 largest fry left. The angels have ben a great plan. They get live food and I do not have to raise 100's of fry and then cull them out. The tanks stay cleaner longer and I save on expensive brine shrimp eggs. I wish I had thought of this years ago. Plus the angels are beautiful.

The true petenensis are zooming up in growth -- amazing.

The zonatus are full size now and one big 3 and 1/2 inch male is gorgeous. The top half of his caudal has long long extended fin rays. This is one of the truly graceful fish. I wish I had the other FINCA population of the species back as it is 2 inches larger and even more impressive. Then its sister species Gnatholebias hoignei has extended 2 inch fin rays down the whole caudel. Incredible looking. Its too bad these species are hard to breed as they are big, beautiful, unusual looking, peaceful and bold.

Several people are using coir for peat spawners and like it. More are mixing it half and half with peat. I've never had a pH problem with peat as I boil it in hard alkaline water for an hour and then rinse it well. I prefer peat as it stimulates breeding and mirrors the soft mud of the wild ponds. Also it holds moisture better for long storage of eggs whereas coir can dry out if not watched. Fish change very easily from soft to hard to back again water if you go slow -- 1/4 a day. Killies live better in the harder alkaline water and breed best in the soft acid water. Discus breeders have found that discus breed best in soft acid water but discus fry grow faster and bigger in hard alkaline water -- calcium for bones! So the careful going back and forth is good. The old pre-WW II breeders of fish always conditioned their fish to breed in spring and summer and used ideal breeding water then and then rested the fish. Today, too many people treat breedin like a machine and always breed their fish which burns them out. Nature gives them a rest and we should too. We keep alot of fish too hot -- 75 F and above and feed to heavy all the time. Alot of tropicals like it 72-74F and need a light diet and then conditioning for breeding. Plus fish eat less when adult. The great thing about live foods is they condition fish so fast -- especially worms. Some fish -- like discus, zonatus, hoignei and cardinals need it hot 80F and above -- but not most tetras and livebearers. If you can ever find old issues of the great AQUARIUM MAGAZINE from the 1930's-1950's you will find a wonderful philosophy of fish keeping summarized each month in the "Calender" section at the start of each issue. One day, maybe I can copy some of these for you.

Nothos do not require live food but they do love it. They do need blackworms for conditioning for breeding. They will eat frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp. The beginning species like guentheri and foerschi eat all sorts of food but rarely dry food. Nothos are just not a dry food eater. They will also eat beef heart mixtures.

Did the grindals come back?

Bobby
 
  • #33
Sure enough I caught a fleeting glimpse of monty fry darting across the surface-they must be at least 2 weeks old due to the size they are now.

I guess the bluespots could function in the same was as the angels when I start getting overrun. How big are the angels being used? I heard they could swallow things like guppies or white clouds.

No sign of the grindals yet...but they are little things. Would you reccomend putting some food in and finding out?

I also read somewhere that people have mixed walnut shell chips or something similar in with the peat...any input on that? I will probably go 50-50 coconut coir and peat-assuming coir is cheaper-and seems more enviroment friendly then peat. Or I may do a more coir heavy or even try 100% coir if the above works out. Seems that peat is so good for so many uses and nothing can completely replace it.

Good to know about the nothos accepting frozen. I've got blackworms around here.

Btw, how many tanks and what size ones do you usually dedicate to one species?
The philosophy is interesting. I myself never used a heater on most of my tanks as I have killed around 3 by doing a water change without watching the heater. That got old quick.

Sounds great on the pertensis-when do you suppose they will be at there prime?

May I dare to ask for a complete list of your currently kept fish?


Also, we oughtta save or do something with these conversations-all this info is being passed around.
 
  • #35
Hi Nflytrap,

This is an exciting day for me. I saw my first Scriptoaphyosemion ("Roloffia") "calabarica" baby after 8 months of trying. This is the valid species or population of another species Scripto. liberiensis (depending on who you believe. I think its a unique species and should be called calabarica.) that was imported once into Germany in 1935, survived WWII, was brought to the USA in the early 1950's and was thought lost in the late 1980's but survived in one breeder's tanks in San Francisco and that several of us are trying to re-establish. It is a shy but stunningly beautiful species -- male is forest green/blue body, covered in red blotches with a tail that is edged in yellow on top and bottom. The female is brownish tan with brown marbling. They are just a neat fish although they'd never be popular as they are shy -- not timid -- just shy. Mine are in a 30 gallon tank filled 90% with java moss and java fern with lots of duckweed. The water is rainwater and the temp. is 77F. That's as low as I can get it in summer. I can't wait until winter as it will drop to 72F and the breeding will be better. I'm letting the fry hatch out with the parents as it is the easiest way. I hope this is the start to a prolific few months. This fish is one of the oldest line bred single importation species in the hobby -- if not the oldest. No one knows the original location data as sailors caught it and just brought it to Germany. It is a rare little gem full of history.

I would avoid walnut shell. I tried it once 25 years ago and it packs, gets stinky and sticks to the eggs. Trust me, peat is the best. Coir would be ok in 50/50 portions on short incubation eggs -- no more than 3 months with lots of moisture content checking.

The adult sunfish are beautiful. I see way you like them. It looks like yours have a while to grow.

The Nothos I keep in 2-4 pairs/trio groups in 10 gallon tanks with floating plants and java fern attached to wood. I put a large low plastic container in there with an inch of peat and weighted down with a few round stones under the peat. I collect the peat every 2 weeks to dry some and store away until ready.

I hatch the fry in shallow plastic storage trays that are about 10x12x6 in 2 inches of water. I use soft acid water to hatch (half gallon to gallon of rain water with a pint of hard alkaline water mixed in). I add some najas plants and after the fry hatch and are eating I add some pond snails for clean up. After 3 days I start adding a pint of hard alkaline water each day to slowly switch them to my tap water chemistry. In 2 weeks I am ready to put them in a 10 gallon tank with a corner filter going very slowly and with lots of plants. I add snails. If there is alot of fry (50+), in a week or 2 I will split them into 2 tens. You want to be sure female Nothos get food and room as the males dominate them and the food so feed well on live baby brine and frozen food as they grow. Change water 50% once a week and adjust the air flow up a bit as they grow but Nothos do not like water movement at all. That's it.

Yeah, feed the grindals and see.

The petenensis are about 2-3 inches now and need to go into a 30 today. I bet they will be full size in 9 months. I can't wait to see them. They have a beautiful graceful shape.

I have:

Poecilia petenensis
Poecilia velifera
Poecilia latipinna x petenensis
Xiphophorus nezahualcotyl
Xiph. montezuma "Ivory Mottled"
Phalloceros caudimaculatus reticulatus
Koi Veil Angels
Albino Angels
Gold Marbel Pearl Scale Angel
Malpuluta kretseri
Gnatholebias zonatus "Apure"
Fundulopanchax fallax (orange and yellow forms) "Fifinda 2003"
Callopanchax occidentalis "Magenta"
Nothobranchius kafuensis "Mambova"
Notho. kafuensis "Nanzhila"
Fundulopanchax arnoldi "Calabar"
Nothobranchius symoensi "Zambia"
Simpsonichthys whitei
Maraecoara lacortei "Formoso de Araguaia"

Bobby
 
  • #36
Sounds good! Impressive list!


Where would you find peat? Never seen it. But then again plants arent really my thing....except Cps
smile.gif
but I always bought em potted. I assume plant spawners are usually considered easier than annuals or "switch spawners"? Many of the aphyoseimon and fundlopanchax are also quite attractive, but other than A. australe, F. gardneri, sjoestedi and some others its hard to find full bodied articles on em. I love full bodied articles-as opposed to quick bits profiles. Have you had experience with our own native Fundulus and lucania by any chance? Certainly not quite as attractive as many of the exotics, but at least they put up a good fight.


You posted about those "Roloffia" earlier, glad to see you had success! Your description makes em sound lovely.

My folks are making me move my stuff out of my room now...so everything will be on one of those restaurant racks downstairs. Hard to tell if thats a good thing or not(will miss keepign a tank on my bookshelf)...but with everything together and organized it will start to look like a "fish  and CP shelf"

For the Nothos, I assume you start em off on BBs and microworms? Have you heard or what they call Cyclopeeze? I've heard of some peoples experiences(ranging from that it worked very well to all the apistos did not eat it). I've also heard of something else called Golden Pearls...said to replace brine shrimp in clownfish aquaculture. I think its best to stay skeptical for now. However, I hear tell brine shrimp are being overharvested.

BTw, why did you say X. montezumae"Ivory mottled". The way 'Marlin' says it is 'Ivory'. Is this a made up name?

I pulled over 20 water lettuce plants from the tank when the ulvaceus plant began throwing smaller leaves on longer stems. Found someone who wants em. But I'm sure I will have to continue harvesting. I've been thinking of replacing it with riccia, which if it ran wild would be better suited to trades and store credit(and stay thinner than water lettuce and not block the view too much). Whats your thoughts on this?

Thanks!
 
  • #37
found this pic, kinda blurry, but shows pretty darn close to life colors.

coal.jpg
 
  • #38
Hi Nflytrap,

Yeah, I just do not get the "ivory" name. I think you have to include some reference to the spotting. The unspotted strains could be called ivory although Marlin has some "commercialized" name for those too.

I have tried cyclopeeze both frozen and freeze dried. I hate it. Overpriced and fish did not really like it. Same with golden pearls, although they are ok in larger sizes -- like a small pellet food. Decapped brine shrimp eggs are the best along those lines for older fry. Killie fry just need live baby brine shrimp and some microworms. Baby grindals work too after a couple of weeks. But baby brine is the foundation of fry raising -- period. It is to fish what RO water is to cp's.

Peat Moss is easy to find at any nursery. Buy the half bushel size 100% pure spaghnam peat moss from Canada. I like a brand called Premeir. It comes in a black plastic bag. Just read the label to be sure its all peat.

Brine shrimp harvesting is strictly controled on Salt Lake as it is big business and an environmental issue. Plus brine shrimp are found all over the world. I've used South American and Chinese eggs at times.

I think annuals are easier than plant spawners as annuals conditioned well are non stop breeders. Plant spawners are more labor intensive with collecting and watching over eggs in water and they lay a few eggs a day. You can set up plant tanks with soft acid water and just let a few fry too many fry appear -- depends on species. Plant spawners have great color but annuals do too and have great behavior. Blue Gularis are a great choice -- big, rough and gorgeous with just 6-8 weeks peat incubation. F. gardneri is easy. Aphy. striatum is beautiful and easy. Australe is nice but can be tricky. Fun. filamentosus is pretty and easy. I'm just an annual fan. I do well with peat spawners. I guess after 30 years I just have the knack down. But Blue Gularis are a great choice -- one of my all time favorites.

The shelf sounds great. Maybe you can get a whole area going and a little fish room.

I'd drop the water lettuce. Try some nice water sprite. If I get my floating water fern going well again -- down to 3 small plants -- it is a great one. But like the lettuce it covers alot of space. Regular floating water sprite is the best. Riccia gets messy as it blows apart too easily. But Riccia full of O2 is pretty.

Look at the Cincinnati Killifish Club's link on the AKA webpage. They have alot of articles. http://www.cincikillies.org. The <Nothobranchius Information Centre> has LOOOOOOOOOOONG articles on each species as does Tim Addis' <Killifish of Western African> site. Also look at the <Roloffia Homepage> and the <South American Annuals> or <Cynolebias Group> webpage.

Bobby
 
  • #39
I guess Ivory sounds exotic-ya know...like Ivory soap
confused.gif
.

Interesting analysis of the peat spawners...guess that is true. I remember with the lineatus every night I would be picking eggs from the mop.


I've always been interested in blue gularis as the finnage and coloring is very nice-but everyone else seems to be too. Nothobranchius are just plain stunning in colorwise though-some of the photos make it look like the things are lit with neon from the inside. I'd love to see that courtship display and how they put the eggs under the peat! I've read a few articles at the Notho info Centre...interesting stuff...kinda confused with all the location info stuff though. Do the nothos spawn in peat in the wild? Whats the habitat like?I'm getting the impression of tropical vernal pools on the plains or something.

Are there any beginner killies that have large fins? I've seen pics of bitaenitum(sp.) but I doubt its a beginners killie.

Seeing you are offering me young pairs as opposed to eggs, is starting from eggs risky? I know that if you fail the first time you can wait a bit and rewet the peat...but its hard to see on some auctions how you can pay 1.00 for an egg...when its 4.00 for a fish.

BTw, do you s'pose the location coded killifish could end up being used for reintroduction programs of sorts?
 
  • #40
Hi Nflytrap,

Contact David Ramsey in Georgia for Blue Gularis and tell him I sent you. Look for David's webpage under Fundulopanchax as he is the AKA's Fundulopanchax guy. Also Doug de Silva in San Francisco has blue gularis. His webpage is www.killiezone.com. David Mikkelson in Oregon raises alot of blue gularis. Don't waste your money on Aquabid.

Notho pools are usually full of weeds and have a muddy, sandy, mulm bottom. Some are open pools and others are shaded. Some are obvious and some are hidden in grasy fields. Peat just mirrors the bottom the best in the aquarium.

Bitaenitum (spelling) is a fairly easy species to breed in soft acid water. I can check on the easiest locations for breeding if you want. Australe has long fins. Blue Gularis has great fins and is easy. Look at Striatum -- very easy and gorgeous. Also Aphy. gabonense gabonense (spelling) is good and has long fins.

Eggs are good if from a good source who sends good eggs. I like eggs from some people and fish from others. I think you will have more fun with young pairs so you can see the whole process. Nothos are hardy with clean water, good food and low air flow. People have trouble with them if they feed poorly and don't change water.

There is the thought of keeping location codes for reintroduction but it is mainly for scientific needs in describing species and fear that different populations of the same species will interbreed and produce infertile eggs and/or fry -- it has happened as some locations almost seem like different species.

Bobby
 
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