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Updates on the ivory montys

  • Thread starter Nflytrap
  • Start date
  • #61
Hi N,

Good luck on operation parental permission. How are the grindals? Any life? It is hard to beat rachovii for looks. Only reality really captures them. Dr. Barry Cooper in Oregon has a number of rachovii populations and is a great guy. Rachovii is just harder to raise as the fry are tiny and need green water/paramecium/rotifers plus bbs for a few days. Eggersi is pretty. I'd avoid kirki as it is usually a weak species.

Bobby
 
  • #62
Also, for the peat, you boil it, and it sinks?

Is there any method to keep the peat contained and still be able to observe the fish spawning?

Juggling kafuensis and rachovii right now.


No sign of the grindals. However, a fellow hobbyist offered to send over a culture of vinegar eels. Might be a good emergency live food if microworms suddenly croak out of if I forget to do another starter.

BTW, for the microworms, I switched over to white bread with oatmeal topping. No real difference, for the most part wasteful little me tends to clean up and reset them long before they have a chance to mold(when the worms refuse to climb the plastic)
 
  • #63
According to a few members on killies.com, N. kafuensis is one of the more shy/difficult ones. However, there was someone who mentioned guentheri as being hard for him...so who knows???

Edit: Also, have you or do you know anyone who has had experience with any betta species besides splendens? A place near me carries among others B. imbellis, smaragdina, and wild B. splendens(but I was never comfy enough to ask due to cigarette smoke). However, at 8 dollars each that isn't something I will jump into lightly. Also, I wonder what that smoke must do to the fish, bettas in particular.
 
  • #64
Hi N,

I don't think kafuensis is that hard. It has a longer incubation period but is less aggressive than other Nothos. I keep males together with not too much trouble if they are raised together. They might need a little softer water to breed than most Nothos but then so do cps.

Sign up for killitalk and ask the Notho experts like Brian Watters.

I have bred Betta strohi one of the mouthbrooding Betta species. I liked it alot. It was 4 inches and jet black. It needed very soft acid water and a quiet location. The species you mentioned are all so close to splendens and spawn the same way. They might need soft acid water. Try 80F. Use a half filled 10 with a bare bottom painted a dark color outside, lots of java fern and water sprite (or any floating plants). Float a 4x4 inch square of plastic wrap on top of the water for the bubble nest. Put a submergible heater in. Place the male in the tank and the female in a quart jar in the tank. When the nest is made net out the female and put her in the tank without ruining the nest. When they breed remove her very carefully and let the male tend the nest. Keep a little light on 24/7. Keep the tank covered. When the fry are free swimming (horizonal) remove the male. Feed green water and bbs from day one. Stop the green water when you see orange bbs bellies on the fry. Add snails for housecleaning. Keep the water clean and away you go.

Wild Bettas are expensive but $8 is high for those. Check around the lybrinth (spelling?) fish sites on the web like the Anabantoid Association of Great Britain and the German Lybrinth Association. You might get better deals there. I'd look at the cocinnea/ rubrians (spellings!!) group of bubble nest bubbling Bettas.

I agree Paradise Fish are gorgeous!

Bobby
 
  • #65
Biggun: i'm already there, though I have only posted once. I'm "Joey S"
 
  • #66
[b said:
Quote[/b] (biggun110 @ Sep. 19 2004,7:56)]Hi N,

   I don't think kafuensis is that hard. It has a longer incubation period but is less aggressive than other Nothos. I keep males together with not too much trouble if they are raised together. They might need a little softer water to breed than most Nothos but then so do cps.

Sign up for killitalk and ask the Notho experts like Brian Watters.

I have bred Betta strohi one of the mouthbrooding Betta species. I liked it alot. It was 4 inches and jet black. It needed very soft acid water and a quiet location. The species you mentioned are all so close to splendens and spawn the same way. They might need soft acid water. Try 80F. Use a half filled 10 with a bare bottom painted a dark color outside, lots of java fern and water sprite (or any floating plants). Float a 4x4 inch square of plastic wrap on top of the water for the bubble nest. Put a submergible heater in. Place the male in the tank and the female in a quart jar in the tank. When the nest is made net out the female and put her in the tank without ruining the nest. When they breed remove her very carefully and let the male tend the nest. Keep a little light on 24/7. Keep the tank covered. When the fry are free swimming (horizonal) remove the male. Feed green water and bbs from day one. Stop the green water when you see orange bbs bellies on the fry. Add snails for housecleaning. Keep the water clean and away you go.

Wild Bettas are expensive but $8 is high for those. Check around the lybrinth (spelling?) fish sites on the web like the Anabantoid Association of Great Britain and the German Lybrinth Association. You might get better deals there. I'd look at the cocinnea/ rubrians (spellings!!) group of bubble nest bubbling Bettas.

I agree Paradise Fish are gorgeous!

Bobby
I thought that 8 dollars was pretty inexpensive for those 2, but I guess they are more common than the other wild bettas. I bred betta splendens before but failed to raise a good number of fry, I blame that on the fact that I didn't try BBS.

Are there any Nothos that are particularly suited to hard water...I think they all come from soft and acidic water in the wild?

I will check around, but it seems that both of those sites you mentioned are in Europe...and it is hard for fish to cross the pond.

All this talk about soft acid water makes me wish that I had an R.O unit...hehehe
 
  • #67
Hi N,

I'll look for Joey S. Glad you made it. Watch for all Brian Watters and Barry Cooper postings -- great Notho guys.

Yeah feeding fry, conditioning breeders and mastering the right water are the 3 keys to fish breeding. Live baby brine shrimp are just crucial for success unless you master raising rotifers in big numbers. Nothing is as easy or good as bbs.

Guentheri, foerschi, melanospilus and korthusae are all good in your tap water. Most Nothos except symoensi will probably breed ok in it. Notho water in the wild seems to start out soft and acid and move to harder alkaline by the dry season. I believe in keeping them in hard water and breeding most of them in slightly soft water. With your small breeding tanks just buy bottled RO water when you want to breed or hatch. I saw the answers on killie.com to your questions -- all given by good friends of mine. The secret to fattening kafuensis females is chopped blackworms and heavy feedings while they are fry so they get big. You should see my girls -- little balls of fat (eggs). Even my old Mambova female is still plump. Most people under feed their Nothos with weak foods. Use worms, brine shrimp, daphnia and mosquito larvae. I've never had problems with Notho females. Also keep them around 74F. I don't even use salt like most do. My ways of keeping annuals are so well tested that I just don't have alot of problems. I just kind of "know" them.

Yes, they are in Europe but check them out for links and information. Also look at this site:http://aquaworld.netfirms.com/phpBB2/. It is a good Betta Forum.

Bobby
 
  • #68
Compared to other fish, how often do you feed the Nothos? I use blackworms quite a bit(mainly for the sunfish and for newts), so thats no real problem for me. Would frozen bloodworms work? Mysis?

Also, do red wiggler worms work for fish? Those ones are sold in bulk online...but I know that newts do not like the acidic secretions they produce. Also, what happens if you put worms into the blender? Chopping those into bite sized slices is very time consuming.

Though I bet that I haven't seen the full glory of any of the nothobranchius, I really like N. kafuensis 'Kayuni' or 'Kayuni State farm'. Chunga sounds good from your description, but there are very few photos. And of course, good old rachovii cannot be slighted.

I'm under the impression Korthausae likes acidic water? Mafia Island(A very odd place BTW, according to notho info centre) is quite attractive. Apparently, they can be wet incubated as well as dry.

Also, how long do Nothos live? I heard that guentheri could live for as long as 18 months. How fast do they grow on a good diet?

I know aquaculturestore.com sells rotifers. The culture methods sound straightforward...but the starters are pretty expensive.
 
  • #69
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Compared to other fish, how often do you feed the Nothos? I use blackworms quite a bit(mainly for the sunfish and for newts), so thats no real problem for me. Would frozen bloodworms work? Mysis?

I just feed twice a day on bbs when fry with some microworms at times and daphnia and grindals as they grow. As adults they get one to two feedings a day on bloodworms, blackworms, adult brine, grindals or daphnia. I feed blackworms daily when I want to condition breeders for like a week or 2. I ease off them when not breeding but always give some each week. I feed until they are a tiny bit plump. Don't know about mysis.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Also, do red wiggler worms work for fish? Those ones are sold in bulk online...but I know that newts do not like the acidic secretions they produce. Also, what happens if you put worms into the blender? Chopping those into bite sized slices is very time consuming.

Red worms are great. Use a pizza cutter and small cutting board to chop them up fast after you put them in some foil and freeze them. Blending makes juice -- ugh.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Though I bet that I haven't seen the full glory of any of the nothobranchius, I really like N. kafuensis 'Kayuni' or 'Kayuni State farm'. Chunga sounds good from your description, but there are very few photos. And of course, good old rachovii cannot be slighted.

I agree. The whole Zambian group of Nothos are so nice. If only we could get polli! Symoensi is also gorgeous but it is a tough one. I'd go with kafuensis especially since I will soon have a pair or 2 of the Mambova for you! They are a big easy Notho. Practice on them then when I get some of the Kayuni in a few months you will be ready for them.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I'm under the impression Korthausae likes acidic water? Mafia Island(A very odd place BTW, according to notho info centre) is quite attractive. Apparently, they can be wet incubated as well as dry.

Really, surprising. I'd bet they'd do fine in hard water though. I just don't like korthausae. I had it in 1974 when it first came in and it never grabbed me. Guentheri and Foerschi are so much pretier for the common Nothos. A good rachovii is hard to beat.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Also, how long do Nothos live? I heard that guentheri could live for as long as 18 months. How fast do they grow on a good diet?

I'd say a year would be good. They can go for more but often less. That's why you breed breed breed.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I know aquaculturestore.com sells rotifers. The culture methods sound straightforward...but the starters are pretty expensive

True but its getting enough to feed twice a day every day!

If you will return it I can loan you a dvd program on breeding Nothos by Bob Morenski that is excellent -- lots of good pics and good information. Just study it and return it by November as I need it for our club.

Bobby
 
  • #70
Dvd sounds great! Let me know when the Mambova are ready. What should I have prepared. I don't think I will be getting any fry for 5 months?


We don't eat pizza that much, but I can sure visualize the carnage and effectiveness of this little weapon. Dunno if they sell them at the dollar tree like some other cheap cooking utensils. Have you tried a worm bin by any chance, or do you just buy your continuously?


Also, is Kayuni unique in sporting such a wide rounded tail?
 
  • #71
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Dvd sounds great! Let me know when the Mambova are ready. What should I have prepared. I don't think I will be getting any fry for 5 months?

Send me your address again would you. I will send the dvd. The Mambova should be ready in about 2 weeks. They are sexing out nicely now. I am seeing more of the reddish males. The incubation is 5 months at around 75F.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
We don't eat pizza that much, but I can sure visualize the carnage and effectiveness of this little weapon. Dunno if they sell them at the dollar tree like some other cheap cooking utensils. Have you tried a worm bin by any chance, or do you just buy your continuously?

They could have one just be sure to get a sturdy one. A razor blade in a holder or a sharp knife works just as well but the pizza cutter just seems safer to me. I have all the stuff to raise red worms but haven't set it up. I buy them at times or dig up earthworms.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Also, is Kayuni unique in sporting such a wide rounded tail?

Nope, that is a kafuensis trait and its a beauty. Mambova is the largest form and the old males get a small "cichlid" hump on their foreheads.

Bobby
 
  • #72
Awesomestuff! Guess I've got a lot to look forward too! Most of the pics showed only Kayuni with the wide tail.

For rewetting the peat after the eggs have hatched(talk about foresight to about 6 months later) how long do you incubate the eggs before wetting them again for a second hatch?

Also, for living quarters, should the female and male be seperated except during spawning?
 
  • #74
Hi N,

I will send out the dvd this weekend. I actually have 2 copies of it but one will not play its sound on my player although it plays fine on other players. I am sending you that copy and if it plays well on your machine then you can just keep it. If not, I will let you borrow the other copy. Postage shouldn't be much on a dvd. Maybe 3 dollars since you need to send them in a box. I also have a good article for you on kafuensis I need to copy for you.

Also, you will soon be getting a big surprise in the mail. Just be sure you have somewhere to incubate some eggs between 74-78 F
smile.gif
. There is still a pair or two of Mambova with your name on it too.

Bobby

Bobby
 
  • #75
Biggun: I found a styro box in the garage just like the ones you use to ship your fish. I think that that and a heatpack might do the trick.


Providing it is an unventful evening for you, whats your story on how you got into the hobby and eventually into killifish? I would be pretty interested in hearing that to say the least
smile.gif


It appears the monties have released another batch-I have fry in about 3 size ranges now. All eating Hikari first bites(worked much better than I expected-they like it!), microworms, and leftovers. What I like about the freeze dried daphnia is the size range-along with the large adults there are also powder fine tiny daphnia that the fry relish.


Thanks! I will keep an eye on the mail.
 
  • #76
Hi N,

I think I was born interested in fish. I had goldfish by the time I was 3, a male Betta at 4 and a big bowl with guppies by 5. At 6 I received another 2 gallon drum bowl with a female red brick swordtail. At 7, my first grade teacher had a tank with black mollies, red brick swords and guppies. I was hooked. After that school year my Dad took me to Woolworth's downtown to buy me a 10 gallon set up. This is when tanks were still made from glass and stainless steel. He was on strike that summer so buying a tank was a huge sacrifice. The week after I got the tank I went grocery shopping with my Mom and next to the store a new fish store had just opened that week. I asked to go inside and she let me while she shopped. The first thing I saw was a big tank with one gigantic pair of Blue Gularis (Fundulopanchax sjoestedti) in it. I was transfixed. I had never seen anything so fantastic looking -- the shape, the color and that tail on the male. They were gorgeous. I wanted them so badly. When my Mom came to get me she said we just couldn't afford them then. I couldn't forgot them and I started reading all I could on fish and particularly killifish. I read the great Innes book EXOTIC AQUARIUM FISHES 100's of times -- it is still the book in the old editions (up until 1954). Innes was a wonderful writer and a great hobbyist who loved the fish -- unlike the businessman, make all the money one can, approach of the famous Herbert R. Axelrod. I kept looking for killies in the stores but rarely saw any. If I did it was Aphy. australe. One day about 3 years later I found young Blue Gularis! I raced home and quickly found 3 yards to mow for the money. I then raced to the store on my bike before closing and got myself a fine pair. All I had was two 10's and they got one ten. I even divided it so I could breed them on one side. I tried to breed them but the eggs died. I now know my water was too hard and alkaline. The pair lived a long time and I remember the female slowly died the night the first astronauts landed on the moon. Not too long after that I discovered a new fish magazine aTROPICAL FISH WORLD nd ordered a subscription. In the back of the first issue was an ad for the American Killifish Association. I had never heard of it and I immediately joined for a Xmas present. I was thrilled when the material came as there was a big Fish and Egg Listings where for every little money members traded 100's of killie species with each other all over the country. I could order all the legendary fish from the Innes book -- Golden Pheasants, Argentine Pearl Fish, Peruvian Longfins, Notho. rachovii, and so many more -- and new ones! That was 1969 and I have been a die-hard killie guy ever since. I knew Scheel, Roloff, Foersch and still know LaCorte with 30 years of friendship. At one time I had a 100 tanks of mainly killies, livebearers, tetras and dwarf cichlids. There is not another group of fish close to killies for spectacular color, fascinating behavior, amateur science, ease of keeping and lack of expense to do so. Killies are the cp's of the fish hobby.

Bobby
 
  • #77
Awesome Story! I have yet to see Fp. sjoestedi in a petstore-only A. lineatus and A. panchax

My story is much shorter but I'm sure I could retell if you are interested.

When should the DVD arrive?

Also, just curious, but for frozen food, do you prefer cubes or flat packs? I use cubes-but I find it annoying when while popping open one you accidentally tear the foil seal on another...and have to tape it or use both. Resealable flatpacks might be a good option?
 
  • #78
Hi N,

Do tell your story. I'd like to hear.

I mailed the dvd and an article on kafuensis today. They should be there soon. Your surprise is being mailed (I think)this weekend so be watching the mail closely the next two weeks. Let me know if the dvd works ok.

Flatpacks. You get more food for less money and its probably better quality since it didn't defrost. I prefer Hikari and I buy 16oz packs. I order 10 at a time from Aquatic Foods (California Blackworms) -- beats the lfs's price by $4 a package.

I have calabarica all over the tank -- like 50. Already 2 people want pairs. With luck it will be spread around again like in the 70's. I sent my Gnatholebias off to friends in LA for their Southern California Killifish Club auction this coming weekend. The mollies are just taking too much space.

Bobby
 
  • #79
Bobby: here's the story.

I was always interested in the lesser animals in general. While I wasn't much of a fan of dogs and the like as a kid, I did really enjoy things like bugs, amphibians, and yes, fish. My first memories of fish involved a few goldfish in a ten gallon tank. Before long, I had managed to persuade my dad to build a pond, and they went into this pond-along with other critters liked crayfish, and a few frogs.

When I was around six, my Grandma set up a 20 gallon(old steel framed tank...still in service) with a group of swordtails. Whenever I was bored, I would watch and feed the swordtails. I remember the day when after she bought them they had fry. Dunno how accurate my memory is, but some of these fry had vertical stripes like those on a tiger barb...they were from a blackish female. The female also threw tuxedos, lyretails, and blacks like herself. We killed most of them(all the tiger striped ones) by putting them in a ten gallon upstairs...prolly do to ammonia spike cause they died off quickly after a week or two. The line went on for at least 7 generations and the ancestors are still at my Grandmas house-though they are now red or red wagtail swords-due to all the other traits purging themselves out. I remember lyretails, a highfin, and a male that lived only one day with us that was a highfin lyretail I'm quite sure. The babies were cute and kept me amused-I remember when I was bored I would set a trap, bait it with food, and remove some for fun. My grandma always had to dump them back in as I forgot about them and they ended up sitting on the table in a little jar for a while.

I eventually moved to a new house a little ways away from the old one-and here we set up a approx 1500 gallon pond-and added goldfish once again. I also kept a dingy ten gallon tank with whatever I managed to catch from the pond. There were mosquitofish in the pond, and I spent many hours attempting to outsmart and outdo them-I like to think i'm skilled with the net
smile.gif

They all ended up in the ten gallon but failed to breed due to all the babies being eaten almost immediately. Believe it or not, I eventually extirpitated the little things from the pond unintentionally.

By 4th grade, I was given a gift-my own big tank. It was a 46 gallon bowfront. I had been researching on fish for a while, and was eager to get this tank set up. The first inhabitants were a few rosy red minnows(P. promelas) and crayfish. Eventually, I got zebra danios, white clouds, and finally paradise fish(my first egglayer to breed).

Skipping ahead, I eventually got a ten gallon bedroom tank with a pair of kribensis that I got for 6 bucks from a really friendly LFS guy. He was almost certain they would spawn for me-and they did after a month-I was hooked. I managed to raise 40 fry and trade them in for store credit.

Skipping golden wonders and killi fry in a pond, Heterandria formosa tank which was always active, and many others, I eventually decided it was time to redo the 46. The old lightbulb was just about to burn out, and the fish were mismatched-shattered remains of the community it had been before. I decided to try my first serious planted tank. Eventually, I got a new fixture, driftwood, and a few plants from the ten gallon. Give it a month or so(about 7 months since the reconstructions began), and some really friendly guy offered me fish
smile.gif
...

And here we are!

I consider when I bred and raised paradise fish in about 4-5th grade as the starting point of when I began to truly understand the hobby-so that makes about 4 years of experience-and counting.
 
  • #80
Got your article on Kafuensis! Really nice! Enjoyed photos as well as text. Again, as you stated, Mambova is capable of throwing red, blue and intermediate-thats three forms for the price of one! The one pictured in the article is Red form I assume?

The picture of Chunga was particularly interested-appears as a blood red fish with a fiery orange tail....but the author also mentions highlights on the flanks that he can never seem to capture in photo. Compared to most nothos, this thing is so saturated with reds and oranges it looks fake! I imagine there is some blue irridescence or otherwise more defined scale outlining.

BTw will the nothos need any heating for the winter? I haven't used heaters in a long time(letting my tanks drop to sometimes as low as 65-68 during the winter). The fish that I chose for my setups made it just fine, not to sure on Nothos. Dunno if there are any tiny heaters for critter keepers.

I've cherry picked most of the interesting articles on cincikillies.org...now thats a good Library! If only the krib had a more diverse killifish section.

What do you feed small juveniles when they are at the stage when they can put away alot, but can't tank very large items? The article claims kafuensis are large and can take BBS from birth.
 
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