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Thread: Fundulopanchax sjoestedti

  1. #1

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    Sorry about the picture quality-trust me the fish in life are far more beautiful especially while courting or spawning. I've only had this pair for a week or two and they have already laid eggs. If the female was a bottomless pit i'm sure they would be going at it 24-7...propagation and food is all that is on the males lttle mind [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] I really wish I could get a picture of his fighting pose as it is absolutely spectacular! He has a "ruff" under his throat which he lowers and it looks like his whole throat is dropping out. The only time I saw this was when the now flat female was saying to the male "no more". Only poblem for me is that all the eggs(I suspect around 20-30) ended up under the sand and I have only found 4. I guess I will leave the rest where they are and hope for the best.





    Bobby: I got this young pair(6 months) and some cash for one of my bags of eggs which I will be shipping after Thanksgiving break when the guy returns from his vacation. He's sending over a little extra for a heatpack.

    The one Mambova male apparently was exhausted or something from the spawning attempts and keeled over a week ago. That leaves me with one female...who as if to taunt me is getting quite plump and I think I can see the eggs through her sides.




    The pair during spawning. The female has obviously lost some baggage.
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  2. #2

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    Hi Nflytrap,

    Sorry for the long delay in answering. I am sorry about the Mambova. I will send you another pair this weekend before it is too cold. Nothos just ship poorly. When these come put all 3 in a tank with no sand and cover the bottom with a 1/2 inch of well boiled in an enamel pan peat moss that is well rinsed after boiling for 45 minutes. That way you will get some eggs.

    Your SJO look great. Who's strain are they? To get the eggs out of the sand, siphon the sand into a 5 gallon white bucket. Then stir it around very fast. As soon as it mostly settles to the bottom figure 8 a net through the water with a powerful thrust and you will collect more eggs. Eggs will die under the sand due to poor O2. Place the eggs in pre-boiled, well washed damp but fluffable peat and store in a plastic fishstore type bag that is good quality. Store the eggs in peat for 6-8 weeks and then hatch in 72F slightly soft acid water. Eggs spawned in soft acid water will be much more fertile. Hard water eggs usually go bad.

    I'd loose the sand. Paint the outside bottoms of your tanks black and put a nice bowl of peat in there for spawning. Peat really is the best and least difficult way to go. SJO also breed better as they mature. Always chop their worms as they can get fat and get dropsey. Males can be hard on females so if you keep them separated and then spawn, I would keep the female alone afterwards until she has eggs again.

    I have 4 pairs of SJO that I will cross. 2 pairs have great blue coloring and deep orange. 2 pairs are bigger and more robust with nice patterning. I want to see if I can get big blues.

    My Gnatholebias FINCA fry have matured into 2 males and 3 females and look great. Now to get many babies and get them spread around.

    Bobby

  3. #3
    I've got a magic window! elgecko's Avatar
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    Very nice looking killies.


    My Grow List Updated 8/24/17

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    biggun: I have no idea if they are a "strain" in particular but the pair is one of 2 one guy on killitalk had(Rick Kraft). Apparently this was the one he was going to keep for himself.

    Your box is still here as I was out of town for a bit. Would you need it to send the Mambova?...or would the packages be "crossing" each other.

    Yup, I've come to the conclusion no sand in killie breeding tanks. Watching them grin happily and bury the eggs was bittersweet...heheh. What size "bowls" do you use for spawning? The pair briefly checked out the bowl but hey avoided it after the male was a bit over amorous and both made a sudden burst to attempt to escape. The male got out...the female spent the next minute or so pacing inside before the male finally swam over the container(the same Glad container the microworms came in with a large hole cut into it) and the female managed to find the exit. While the notho male used this thing fine I guess SJO need bigger ones.

    For softer water during spawning, would I mix my water with R.O.? Would it be advisable to spawn in a smaller tank? If you and I succeed with SJO praps we could cross offspring.

    Not to sure how different blue and red SJO are but I remember someone(Think it was David Ramsey)showing a picture of a completely blue blue gularis. Very interesting, but the intermediate looks better IMO. I understand why you wanted these so bad when you were around my age.

    Also, how much do you usually feed the SJO. I'm pretty sure they will eat themselves silly, but for the male I try to keep him so that his belly doesn't bulge or otherwise very slightly. The female gets a little more-she's the greedy one anyway.

    The eggs haven't fungused on me yet...I put two on top of wet peatto see what happens.

    The pair is still together in the ten gallon. I think I will be moving the male back to the 46 gallon. Yes they did make a little hole in my fry population but most of the juvies are too big for them to eat right now.

    BTw, would it be possible for you in spring to send over a group of ivory monty fry if you have extras? I could use them for "inoculating" the pond along with some of my own fish.

    Btw, any updates on your limias, pictas, etc.? I know someone who just came back from a collecting trip in Southern CA(near the Salton sea) and brought back 100 or so porthole livebearers. They look quite interesting.

    I'm not too sure if I'm slow or something...but just today while reading the old posts of yours to get a re briefer on hatching BBS(will be buying a can soon) I noticed that the (notho)eggs you planned to order were the ones I received(now am I slow or what?)

    Thanks!

    Forgot to mention this, but I found it oddthat the 2 fish came in itty bitty bags. I was later informed(cut the bags to get the fish) that they were breather bags. Rick mentioned that he has had no casualties using these and will depend on them till he does(he hasn't sent too many fish around though). I mentioned the popping issue and he mused that if they were tied too tight they might pop.
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I have no idea if they are a "strain" in particular but the pair is one of 2 one guy on killitalk had(Rick Kraft). Apparently this was the one he was going to keep for himself.

    Nice, he sent you very good fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Your box is still here as I was out of town for a bit. Would you need it to send the Mambova?...or would the packages be "crossing" each other.
    I have another box to use so you would need to return 2 boxes. Now we could wait and let me breed these and then send you eggs as the fry you would raise will be stronger and used to your environment. I will start breeding these now and then wait and send you eggs in the spring. Plus I am hatching my eggs from blue parents the first week of Dec. so I might have more variety in that hatch and could send you pairs next spring or eggs. Let me know.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Yup, I've come to the conclusion no sand in killie breeding tanks. Watching them grin happily and bury the eggs was bittersweet...heheh. What size "bowls" do you use for spawning? The pair briefly checked out the bowl but hey avoided it after the male was a bit over amorous and both made a sudden burst to attempt to escape. The male got out...the female spent the next minute or so pacing inside before the male finally swam over the container(the same Glad container the microworms came in with a large hole cut into it) and the female managed to find the exit. While the notho male used this thing fine I guess SJO need bigger ones.
    Good. I tried sand, green sand marl, crushed walnut shells and glass beads when I was a teenager and concluded that boiled rinsed regular old peat moss was best. SJO need a big bowl. I use a 3" tall 8" diameter plastic bowl for big Fundulopanchax with an inch of peat and a few round stones in the bottom to weight it down. I leave the top off. Peat blows out but its ok. If you are keeping the sexes separate and just put them together to breed in a tank, I would just cover the tank bottom with an 1/2" of peat, spawn the fish for a day (keeping an eye on the male for meanness to the female as males can be deadly) and then collect the peat. Don't feed them as they are breeding that day so you get very clean peat. Store the peat moist in a good quality fishstore plastic bag (freezer bags don't breathe enough). Fishstores will sell you a few or just give them to you. Fluff the peat before storage and seal air in the bag too. The peat should be moist so that when you squeeze a bit between 2 fingers a little water comes out. It should be dry enough to fluff easily and not clump like when soaking wet.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    For softer water during spawning, would I mix my water with R.O.? Would it be advisable to spawn in a smaller tank? If you and I succeed with SJO praps we could cross offspring.
    Yes, I mix 10% tap water with 90% RO or rainwater. I keep the fish in the harder tap water and then for breeding I change a 1/4 of the water once or twice a day until I get a slightly acid pH reading and a GH and KH around 3-4 each. The fish need the slow changeover. I will also do it by putting the fish in a bucket with their hard water and then add a 1/4 of that amount in soft water every hour for 4-5 hours. That works just fine too. I'd leave the female in the tank and do it in the tank for her and maybe do the male in the bucket and then add him to the tank. You can just keep them in soft water period but watch for velvet as that is when it attacks. If you keep the water changed though and watch the chemistry permanent soft water is fine. Soft acid water just insures fertile eggs and lots of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Not to sure how different blue and red SJO are but I remember someone(Think it was David Ramsey)showing a picture of a completely blue blue gularis. Very interesting, but the intermediate looks better IMO. I understand why you wanted these so bad when you were around my age.
    I have the blues from David and they are beautiful. Yes, blue gularis were one of the first killies brought out alive from Africa (1905) and they have been a favorite ever since. They are big, fun, gorgeous, easy to keep and breed. I am always amazed they are not a staple of the lfs. They are one of the perfect tropical fish. Wait until they get big! If you raise fry out in your pond next summer you will have killer looking males color and size wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Also, how much do you usually feed the SJO. I'm pretty sure they will eat themselves silly, but for the male I try to keep him so that his belly doesn't bulge or otherwise very slightly. The female gets a little more-she's the greedy one anyway.
    Oh, let them bulge a little as they are young and growing. As they mature then feed less. For breeding, think about increasing the female's food to ripen her and then when resting her feed less. Always chop the worms. They usually love earthworms chopped too.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    The eggs haven't fungused on me yet...I put two on top of wet peatto see what happens.
    Great sign! Yes, the peat when placing eggs on top of it should be wetter than if you were just storing the eggs laid in peat. I used to make peat sandwiches for placing eggs on peat. I'd have a very wet layer on the bottom; a piece of old nylon ladies hose on top of that pressed into the peat so it was wet; the eggs sitting on that; then another piece of old hose over eggs; and then more wet peat on top of the second layer of hose. A sandwich. It worked great but peat itself was easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    The pair is still together in the ten gallon. I think I will be moving the male back to the 46 gallon. Yes they did make a little hole in my fry population but most of the juvies are too big for them to eat right now.
    Very good for conditioning and population control!

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    BTw, would it be possible for you in spring to send over a group of ivory monty fry if you have extras? I could use them for "inoculating" the pond along with some of my own fish.
    I could but you may not want them as I am crossing them with my old unspotted strain. The unspotted strain gets bigger and the males have higher, rounder and even more marked up dorsals. I want to improve the spotted ones. The unspotted strain also has males with orange on the sides.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Btw, any updates on your limias, pictas, etc.? I know someone who just came back from a collecting trip in Southern CA(near the Salton sea) and brought back 100 or so porthole livebearers. They look quite interesting.
    They are doing great. I must have 6 pairs of the Limias and a few fry -- the lcortei are eating the babies. I have 40 pictas but no red ones yet. What are porthole livebearers? The Salton Sea had sailfin mollies, platies and swords in it in the 50's as the LA fish guys released them in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I'm not too sure if I'm slow or something...but just today while reading the old posts of yours to get a re briefer on hatching BBS(will be buying a can soon) I noticed that the (notho)eggs you planned to order were the ones I received(now am I slow or what?)

    LOLOL. I have a nice tank of N. symoensi sexing out. What a pretty fish. My favorite Notho.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Forgot to mention this, but I found it oddthat the 2 fish came in itty bitty bags. I was later informed(cut the bags to get the fish) that they were breather bags. Rick mentioned that he has had no casualties using these and will depend on them till he does(he hasn't sent too many fish around though). I mentioned the popping issue and he mused that if they were tied too tight they might pop.
    I think the small bags work better than the big ones. BTW, the petenensis have dropped another 10 fry. They have small batches. The males are simply gorgeous. The black swords on the tails are fine and the blue tipped scales are great. I have a huge velifera just sexing out. He is going to be a whopper. The velifera are so robust -- almost like Goodieds or pupfish -- big butter balls.

    All my arnoldi are mature and look great and a tank of the bizarre lacortei is a sight to behold --- alien looking fish.

    Bobby

    --------------
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    D. muscipula

  6. #6

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    Arrow

    Great info here as always!

    I think I will be moving the male back to the display tank and leave the female in this one. Dunno if you've noticed this before but after the female was empty and the male still wanted to spawn she got "pissed"(for the lack of a better word) at him. They both went into bluffing mode for a minute or two but a few minutes later they were at it again. Yeah, even my Dad commented how the male looked like a SW fish. My only explanation to why they aren't common in the LFS is because they are specialized fish and would be labor intensive to produce(just guessing). Of course if my sex ratios come out male heavy I have an outlet for any extras. It would be nice to have a lot of females I could borrow a few more "studs" from people to experiment with. If I'm going to breed for anything it would be color(of course) and finnage. Do only certain strains develop the trident-tail?

    Dunno bout you ober in Texas, but here in CA it hardly ever rains. Makes me wonder why they decided to start some kind of growing operation in the desert. I don't have an RO unit over here and I'm not to sure how I would ever convince the folks to get one. If their was/is some other use for RO water maybe I could suggest that... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_m_32.gif[/img]

    Regarding the monties-I may still want them. I'd like to hear the results of this little experiment first though [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]

    Regarding the Mambova...how long will this female last till she croaks/ends her productive life? The guy who sent over these blue gularis has a single pair of Mambova and he might be able to use this female if it will be too old by the time eggs come over.

    Also, note that Chunga and Kayuni Zam 97/9 will be hatching in spring. I have no idea how big the hatches will be but suspect they will eat most of my rubbermaids(I have two which I think are 2 feet by 1 foot-will need to design some kind of lid for them). The N. orthonotus will also be hatching next year(maybe even this year) but I doubt that mixing these two up will be a problem as the N. orthonotus will probably be subadults by the time the Chunga or Kayuni are ready.

    Btw, does anyone ever sned out groups of subadults or just eggs or pairs? The bag of N. orthonotus looks like it will produce quite a few and these guys apparently need more space than most other nothos.

    I'll let you know how everything turns out.
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  7. #7

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    A picture of the rack just so you can see how things are turning out here. Its particularly messy right now [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]. You can see the 2 ten gallons(one houses the heterandria formosa, a few newts, and may be a possible home for any other small coolwater fish) the one on the right is where the sjoestedti and the single Mambova female are right now(it may turn into a fry raising or juvie tank someday). The "critter keeper" at the top is where the Mambova or other nothos may be when breeding(I would think that is too small for SJO). The green one is my happy little scud culture. You can see part of the big montezumae swordtails tank which is where the SJO will go when not breeding and it could possibly use some other kinds of fish. you can see 2 clear plastic salad containers...one with a few newt larvae and the other empty. Then you see to big rubbermaids where I will be hatching and rearing any Nothos. Also an empty ten gallon which I don't have permission(yet) to fill. It is very tempting to perhaps evict the Cps to the windowsill(they would like it better) and put another ten gallon there....muhaha. The rack can take the weight of course.

    The most useful thing to have around is a old towel under the rack for catching any small spills and I've got a couple rags for anything that doesn't land on the towel. I should have another towel(s) if perhaps I someday spill a whole bucket of water or something. It would be nice to have maybe tile under the rack as opposed to the woodfloor its on now so I don't have to worry about spills quite as much. Dunno how one would go about doing that.


    Edit: Among other things you can see are 3 microworm cultures(one in a yogurt tub...two started in itty bitty cups for an experiment)...my miscellaneous bottles and whatnot. Nets, one of my rags ontop of one of my yogurt tubs(use these for transporting fish or acclimating since it is easier to remove fish from a yogurt tub than from a bag. Dunno if you can spot it but there is a Peanut jar that I used to store some of my water/ boiled peat. Dunno if its best to produce it as you need it but it seems to be working fine(short term at least) and I have some extra peat tea to play with. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  8. #8

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    The sci name for porthole livebearer is poeciliopsis(sp.) gracilis. Here's one of the few photos I could find. http://www.afae.it/pages....lis.jpg

    Here's another one...actual thread I as talking about

    http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7352

    http://home.fuse.net/fishfarmer/Poec...sgroup2459.jpg

    Edit: One of the eggs on the peat turned white...I couldn't find the other so I'm assuming it dissapeared, and the two in the water were clearly cloudy(hehe...talk about oxymoron) so I assumed they were infertile too. At lleast I think we've got the solution to the problem.

    I was able to get pretty good hatch rates out of lineatus eggs. I even got lazy about changing the water, removing fungusing eggs, and keeping them out of the sun and still pulled fry. Not to mentioned I handled, poked at, and fiddled with these little crystal balls alot. I did poke through the mulm with my fingers to find these two. Need to either use tweezers, or maybe a cut straw as shown on killies.com


    Also, do you think this pair may be a little young and the male is just firing blanks? one guy on killitalk mention that wait around 3 months before even getting a fertile egg....since this pair is around 6 months old.
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

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