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Thread: Fair tax

  1. #9
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    You guys seem to not be willing to open up to the point here. By eliminating the waiste and the middle and lower classes getting to keep more of their money the too can invest and do the same things the rich are doing. OK think about it. I will use myself as an example. I pay around 500 or so if not more in fed taxxes. If I continue to spend the same after this tax is passed then I will have an extra 500 in my pocket that I can use to pay off bills. Once the bills are paid off then I'm home free. Everyone is stuck on the poor poor poor and think they do not have the brains to get themselves out of it. In reality most are frugal with the money they have. Granted some are not and squander it away, but alot are. If the lower class continue to spend like theyt are forced to spend now but keep all their paycheck the will be gaining a net increase in cash flow. Remember this tax is not included on USED item. I myself buy alot of things at flea markets and out of for sale books when I can. THose goods are not taxxed so the poor will not be paying a higher percentage if most keep their spending the same. They will be spending less tax. Please don't be stuck on stupid. Do some research about it first before you go blowing up and say its bad for the poor. Hell I don;'t make great money myself but I have read the book and understand the principal. IT DOESN'T TAX USED ITEMS. SO my car I bought would be tax free since it was used and now that I have 500+ extra income coming in I can pay it off faster. The poor will have the same benefits as I see for myself. No you know good an well that a rich person will not buy used because he can afford new. He will be paying tax on the new item. Now that when I get my bill paid off I too can save the 1000 or so to get started in the stock market and hopefully get more money just like the rich. I think its a win win for everyone but your going to have to use the system to your advantage. The corperations that buy vehicles for their CEO will be paing tax and the ultra rich who buy a new car every year or the rappers that have 50 cars all with 20 inch rims will be paying taxxes. Stop being closed minded and think a little. I know I asked you what you thought, and I respect that, but now look at the bigger picture a min and accualy think. I asked my Micro economics teacher about what he thought and he spealed out the same rhetoric that I have read here and other boards I asked the same question too. He also told me he didn't read the book and his wife did and she loved it. He told me he was skeptical but didnt know all the ins and outs of the deal. Like endparintheses said there is potential to make money off the government with the prebate check. If you spend frugaly and supliment with a garden or something. And thnk about it most of the poor already do that. In fact I believe the poor wo are more frugal than my wife and I will make out like bandets and have the opprotunity to get ahead a little. Like the book says maybe there will be a time when social securety will no longer be the crutch it now is. The way it was intended not to be.
    JB
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  2. #10

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    I agree with the fair tax soley because I hate income tax laws. They give the government to much power in invading your privacy.

  3. #11
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    That is another thing that the book sudjests will be fixxed. Personaly I wish we could get the government out of alot more of our business and go back to the 5% governing and 95% state governing like it was ment to be. BIG BROTHER I DON"T WANT YOU TRYING TO CONTROL ME ANYMORE!!! Hell a guy can barely fart now a days and not get in trouble.
    JB
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  4. #12
    Capslock's Avatar
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    I agree that the IRS is intrusive, and our system is wasteful. I hate "Big Brother".

    But if we're going to change the tax system, it shouldn't transparently shift the burden off the wealthy and on to the middle class, which this system does. It can probably be tweaked to work, and it's a lot simpler that what we do now. Maybe if you taxed investments and all property purchases as well, it might help. But the downside is that all these things discourage buying stuff, and that will hurt the economy badly.

    Capslock
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  5. #13
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Not really. and the burdon is already on the middle class and off the wealthy so haw can that be a problem with the new tax? The wealthy alreayd get out of paying most of their taxxes. I believe everyone should pay their share and as bad as it may sound I do not believe in charging someone more because they have more money. No store would do that and neither should the government. Property wil be taxxed if its a new building on that property. I still do no understand how this will hurt the poor. I really don't. I have had people say it would take a greater percentage of the poors money, but I don;t belive that. Maybe statisticly it may seem that way, but I duno about the poor people in their minds. The real poor and working class do not always buy new anyways. Maybe cloths and food, but there willbe a prebate to get most of those taxxes. Many of the real poor buy from flea markets and goodwill and places like that hell I shop at those places. The tax will not be present there. I buy used cars the tax will not be there. I bought a used home the tax is no there. Just on the New items, and again you will be getting a prebate to cover the taxxes of the good up to the poverty level. And remember everyone get it. You, me and Mr Gates. The rich re not going to suddenly start buying used. They still will buy new because they can afford it. Prices should stay the same because of the built in tax cost of items already leavingand being replaced. It probably would take a min for the laws of competition to bring them down, but it will. It happened with the airlines back in the 80's. I do not agree with socialism or comunism. Take everyones wealth and dipserse it equaly to everyone. Nope not for me. Thats what I believe people who want to tax the rich more because they have more money want to do. I think everyone whould pay equaly. Hell I would be ok with a flat 10% or 15% tax for everyone just get rid of the loopholes and make everyone pay it. I just think that this system in my opinion is much fairer than the current system.
    JB
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  6. #14
    Capslock's Avatar
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    That works fine in theory, and with a level playing field, but that's not the reality. Our economic system is stacked so that the wealthy tend to accumulate more and more money. The statistics are very easy to demonstrate, and the gap between rich and poor is growing by leaps and bounds - and has been for some time. Think of a game of Monopoly - eventually one guy ends up with all the money. One safeguard against this is the progressive income tax. It would be truly disastrous, without any other remedies, to enact a tax policy that transfers even more wealth to them.

    The policy proposed above doesn't necessarily hurt the poor. But it certainly benefits the rich - since they don't spend as much on retail goods as the middle class does as a percentage of their income. So, someone has to pay the bills, and if it's not the poor, and not the rich, it's the middle class. So this policy, while an admirable simplification, will only exacerbate the already-growing class differentiations - to the detriment of our economy. I don't want to make everyone equally rich. I believe in the profit motive and capitalism. But I also believe in a healthy society where there really is opportunity for everyone. Stacking the deck further in favor of the rich only hurts that. Nobody can look at our economy today and think that the problem is that the middle class needs to transfer money to the wealthy. Yet that's what this proposal does.

    Fairness isn't necessarily accomplished by equal rates. Because the "game" isn't played by equal rules. Believe me, I would benefit by this policy. I make good money. But money doesn't do me any good when it hurts society as a whole.

    Capslock
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    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  7. #15
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Well. That is a good rebutal, but I still think it would help out the poor to the rich alike. I know I'm not going to stop buying new when I need too. I just think that this system will benefit everyone. Just so happens will beneift the rich too. You say that its going to benefit you then what is it to not benefit the personmaking minum wage? He is no longer going to have taxxes taken from his check. He will have more in his pocket too Plus be getting the prebate check. Don;'t get me wrong I se where your coming from. Statisticly they are paying a higher percentage of their income on food and clothing than the rich do, but thats happeneing now. If anything those that are makin less than poverty will be doing better under this system. Because the prebate is based on the poverty line. I have always felt for some time that a tax similar tothis would bring in more money to the government than it know. I don;t believe the tax would stay at 23% for very long once they seen how much it would bring in. Oh well you know what tey say everyone has an opinion. I was just curious to know how many people Liked it with me.
    JB
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  8. #16
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    If someone's getting richer, then someone else is getting poorer. That's just how it goes. There's only so much money in the world. This tax doesn't create or gather any new resources; it only redistributes what we already have. Somebody will always be poor until the population goes down, way down. And once it does, there will be no distinction between rich and poor (providing that the wealth somehow becomes evenly distributed, which is unlikely.) You can point to as many people as you like and say they'll benefit, but the truth of the matter is that some folks are poor because there just isn't enough money to go around. Changing tax laws isn't going to change that, and in reality, it can't - it can only change where the money is going. The wealthy aren't just going to give up their excess cash to the poor man to even things out. Money runs this country, and there isn't a doubt in my mind that this will only pass if it helps the rich get richer (or hides the fact that they're getting richer.) If you think it's going to help the little man, then that's great, but someone has to get shafted in the process. Like Capslock said, if it's not the poor and not the rich, it's the middle class.
    ~Joe
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    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
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