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Thread: Fair tax

  1. #17
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    So the tax will take less money from the poor, the rich, and everyone in between. While generating even more money for the government. What's not to like about that? The only question is whether the system will be run by someone with a magic wand or will it be more of Jesus and the loaves & fishes kind of thing?
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #18
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Well, seedjar I don't believe you about only so much money to go around. At the moment there is not enogh prinited cash money to go to everyone if they took out all their money out of the banks. Thats a big thing they were worried about people doing back during the melenium debokle. Our money is not backed by gold anymore. So I duno what the solution is, but I still do not believe its going to hurt the poor. Many are going to be better off in my opinion. Thanks everyone for your replys, but I guess people already have their minds made up. I would like to know where the supporters were though because I only saw one person with a posotive say on the matter, and I postes this same question on 3 boards and so far only one supports and a hand full (5 or so) of nay sayers.
    JB
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  3. #19
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    So you're saying that you can just magically materialize money out of nothing, then? Perhaps you have a bridge to sell me, too.
    There's a big difference between paper currency and the power and resources it represents; don't mistake the map for the territory. Simply put, there aren't enough resources for every human being; that's why people are starving in the third world. It's not that we can't print enough dollar bills - it's that there's not enough food, not enough power, not enough clothing, not enough oil, not enough homes. Resources occur in finite amounts, and that's what makes them resources. That's why we have money to begin with - to represent the goods we have earned but have yet to collect. The bottom line is that a tax plan can't just 'make' new money or the resources it represents; the money has to come from somewhere.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  4. #20
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    The more and more I thought about it after I posted the responce it made sence, but you will accualy be freeing up recousces with the fairtax. You would eliminate waste in the federal government and corperate sectors that with a sinpler tax code can be shifted to other places. Now the third world countries I duno how to explain it without sounding crual. So I will do my best. The settlers back when this country got started did not have people to help then by Giving them money. They were tought how to grow certain crops by the indians. They invented things as the problems came up. I do not understand why our poor forefathers were able to make this great nation we have now, but others can't rise up to the occasion and make something out of what they have. I don;t want to sound crual in saying that. Help people to better themselves and stop giving everything and help them be selfsaficiant. I believe that is what the fiartax will help do make more and more of the poor and low middle class more selfsaficiant. I know not everyone has to be stuck in the poor class. They can rise themselves up. Many of them have a good sence on their sholders if given a chance. I think this will be the helping hand they need, but thats my opinion. I dunowhat to say about 3rd world countries I duno why someone can't help out and help them to be self saficiant. They not only need aid, but schooling to fend for themselves so they can better themselves. It can happen I feel it. People sometimes by trying to help someone end up accualy holding them back in the state of demendancy they are in. Just like loving someone to much. Giving a child everything they want and whenever they get into a jam bailing them out lead to nothing but depndancy in most cases. When finaly made to sink or swim alot of time they swim. Keep in mind I never said all the time.
    JB
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  5. #21
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    I truely believe that this will raise income for the government while reducing the indeviduals tax burdon. The more people make the more they will spend. Heck it was proven with the tax cut. It raised tax revenue by a large margin I just heard it on the news yesterday. So when you eliminate waste and give the indevidual more money in their take home then they will return the favor by spending.

    Oh and this is another thing I would liek to through out. Does anyone know what the government calls the portion of your check they do not take? Tax expendatures. As if they are allowing you to have back some of the money from the government. Just thought I would throw that in.
    JB
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  6. #22
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    That's a lovely thought, and in the short term it does have truth, but ultimately there is nothing new in the universe. It's all distribution; the conservation of energy. There is balance to all things, and economics is no exception. It doesn't matter how you spend money - you aren't going to make anything genuinely new.
    Most of America's 'rising up' happened when we began trading and shortchanging the rest of the world. Trade and commerce is based upon cutting deals in favor of yourself and not the competition; buy low, sell high. Much of the infrastructure which supported the Industrial Revolution that has made our country so rich and powerful came from money generated by the tobacco, cotton and sugar crops; crops worked and culled by slave labor. We took human beings from other cultures in order to build our success. Before that, we owe much of our success to the pillaging of Native American cultures, and before that, back in Europe, much of industry was driven by Anglo-Saxon slaves. It's all give and take, no matter how you dress it up.
    As for freeing up waste going to the government, yes, it will, but that 'waste' is paid out to government workers to feed and clothe them and their families. Are they not deserving of an honest wage? Once you eliminate that 'waste,' those people will just find new jobs, and will again be on either the winning or losing side of things. Just think about it; if you have two apples and I have none, there isn't any way for you to give me an apple without losing one yourself; even if you go off and pick more apples from a tree, you'll have to lose some of what you gained in picking if you wish for me to have apples.
    I'm sorry to burst your happy little bubble, but somebody always loses. If you think about it, gaining would have no meaning if there weren't such a thing as losing. To be polarized is the natural order of things. You may not always see it, but that only means you're not looking hard enough.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  7. #23
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Well, not all the wate in the government is paying is going to the IRS. I accualy think they will still be needed but inanother role. The waste I;m talking about is the man hours spent by corperations trying to avoid taxes. All the millions, make that billions spend on legal advice in not paying taxes. That money can be reaocated to more staff. The man hours it took to do that can be used to do something else. I realize the majority of things is a ying and yang. Give and take, but there is also ways to bend those rules aswell. For those of you who think that rich people are going to spend else where I believe your mistaken. You have the rich buying fancy cars and yacts and all the rest. They are not going to buy second hand. There is a sence of now and the must have it now. Don't worry your not bursting my bubble Joe, but things can be optimized to run better without the beurocratic BS. The rich can have things and be in better situations than they are currently in. They are not going to be paying any more taxes than they are now with the prebates to cover the taxes paid on esential items. Now everything else is a luxury. For you me and everyone else. Yes some have more than others. societies change and jobs change to flow better. Why fight to keep a bloated system when its one of the main things keeping us back? The system is broken, and until someone can give me a better solution that is fair I think this is better at the moment. At the moment a rich lawyer when he wins a multi-milliondollar case will have the winnings transfered to a corperation he runs. He then gets a chack a fraction of the size paid to him and the rest in dividends that are not taxed. Also you have folks working under the table paying no taxes and people making money through illegal means not paying taxes this system I believe will cature those lost taxes too. Thats where the income will be coming from too. So thats fine with everyone in agreement there also has to be some in disagreement so thats fine. Just remember I don;t have a bubble to be burst. I just don;t see it as meger and grim for the poor as some folks do. All they need is a little push in the right direction. Look at it this way. We do agree on sme things. CP's The purpose of this thread was not to make enemies, but to see if anyone here supported it. I really thought there would have been more than one in support. If they are they are not speaking up, but thats fine. As long as they sign the petition and contact their congreman maybe we can give this econemy another boost.
    JB
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  8. #24
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Josh - The fair tax is a scam and where is it you get your news? You said,

    "Heck it was proven with the tax cut. It raised tax revenue by a large margin I just heard it on the news yesterday."

    and

    "Does anyone know what the government calls the portion of your check they do not take? Tax expendatures."

    As for the first, that's because of the scary combination of massive deficit spending, appallingly low savings rates and alarmingly high levels of personal debt. As Joe mentioned, we're also parasitizing the rest of the world. But none of it is sustainable.

    As for the second quote, tax expenditures are what people can subtract from their taxes, not everything they keep. This is a decent explanation of them - http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...ers/P75680.asp. A good example is the home mortgage deduction. And it's huge. Because of it, the federal government gives more housing assistance to people with high incomes than to people with low incomes.

    Don't forget that with Fox News, "The more you watch, the less you know."
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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