We stick our noses into places that need to be cleaned up. The U.S.A. acting as 'GOD' in Iraq and Afgan are directly making the world a safer place for every citizen. Sure we could do exactly as we did for 8 years under Clinton, just sit back and except the actacks on us, maybe send a few rockets into a coupld of mud huts and say 'Now don't do that again'. Or we can put the war to them and not give them time to attack us again. Sure soldiers are dying making the world safer for everyone. But when they signed on the dotted line they knew the risks and excepted the concequences. Innocent civilians are not trained to fight the terrorists and have no defence against unprovoked attacks. I for one would rather know that the enemy is in front of me, rather then not knowing if a plane is going to fly into my place of business one day while typing at a computer.[b said:Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Nov. 02 2005,11:37)]And we stick our noses into everyone else's business for??
?
We are not responsible for the stupidity of the rest of the world. So Slick Willy just sat there. Who died, and made the United States, God???
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
What would happen if
- Thread starter fc3srx713b
- Start date
Actually we are responsible, it was a genocide. After WWII, the U.N. was created and one of the corner stones of its creations was to prevent a future genocide. Considering that the U.S. has a big pull in the U.N., and considering the fact that we knew genocide was happening over there, we should have acted. Instead the U.S. did nothing, not even in the U.N. did we act. So slick willy sat there and let a genocide happen. You act as if the loss of around a million people is not tragic. No one died and made the U.S. God, but as the world's super power we could have easily prevented all those ruthless deaths.[b said:Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Nov. 02 2005,11:37)]And we stick our noses into everyone else's business for???
We are not responsible for the stupidity of the rest of the world. So Slick Willy just sat there. Who died, and made the United States, God???
You can vote for an independent, but still it is logical to understand that being an isolationist is the thing of the past. To ensure saftey today we must be involved in foreign affairs otherwise sooner or later we will have to face that foreign threat on our soil.
Well said Wolf.[b said:
The U.S. only intervenes when a situation arises that threatens U.S. or the world's stability. Might I mention World Wars I and II. I wonder if the Europeans still remember that. France sure doesn't.
Then there was Korea, Vietnam, Bosinia and my area of expertise, the dirty little wars in Panama, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatamala, and Columbia. Americans fought and died there, not for political or monetary gain, but just because it was the right thing to do.
We send food and medical suppies and logistical support to many Afican countries, Asian tusnami and Afghan earthquake victims. For better or for worse, we try to do what is right. Very few other countries can say that.
If other countries don't like what we do, then let them bail themselves out the next time a catastrophe strikes...but then we won't do that...We ARE nice people Charlie Brown.
FlytrapGurl
apple rings.. what more can i say?
Exactly where I'm coming from, weed. Now...[b said:Quote[/b] ]And we stick our noses into everyone else's business for???
We are not responsible for the stupidity of the rest of the world. So Slick Willy just sat there. Who died, and made the United States, God???
<span style='font-size:2pt;line-height:100%'>*prepares anthrax packages*</span>
Well, I have heard that BS for a while, and always from the same place. Figures. They sing the song, and you guys dance to their tune. OK. Fine with me. But I still think that is crap. Parties. What a joke. NEW BLOOD. NEW BLOOD in the White House, and nothing, and I mean Nothing there that starts with a D or an R. How about fresh thinking that realizes the war in Afghanistan more justified than the lie to force our will on the Iraqi people. Yes, some of them are glad we are there, many more are not. Please spare me anymore of your party lines please. I haven't eaten yet.
No war is good. Necessary sometimes, but not good. A shame we were forced into a country nowhere near ready to deal with us, and stuffed our way of life down their throats. Granted, a terrible man was forced from power, but the lie is still a lie, and all the rhetoric and spin you can put on this, doe NOT justify the war in Iraq. Afghanistan I can see. Iraq was B.S.
No war is good. Necessary sometimes, but not good. A shame we were forced into a country nowhere near ready to deal with us, and stuffed our way of life down their throats. Granted, a terrible man was forced from power, but the lie is still a lie, and all the rhetoric and spin you can put on this, doe NOT justify the war in Iraq. Afghanistan I can see. Iraq was B.S.
Parties? Republicans? Democrats? Who's riding the band wagon? Obviously you are riding the band wagon of anti-party. I clearly stated it doesn't matter what party or no party you belong to. I totally agree with the fact that the two parties are just worried about their own agenda and they don't meet their promises, nothing new there as you stated. However it just makes sense to be involved in foreign affairs, ignoring it will result in a bigger problem over here, an example of that would be 9/11. It's all about globalism today.[b said:
Your Iraq = BS speech: You can call it whatever you want. You can say it stems back from W's daddy's problem. The fact of the matter is, we toppled the old Iraqi regime in two weeks. After that two weeks to today we are still fighting a war. Are we fighting a war on Iraq or a war on terror? Obviously it's a war on terror and obviously there are terrorists there.
If we forced them into a way of life than how come 60% or more went to the polls and voted? If they were really for being under a brutal dictator then why did they bother to exercise their power to vote? Common sense would seem to say that infact they would do the opposite and not vote, but they did. Becareful what you believe, the media is usually one perspective of the whole story.
Give me a break, Wolf. The people who were responsible for the first WTC bombing(which happened when Clinton had been in office for 3 weeks)...their fannies are in jail. Their ringleader is in jail, here in the US.
The guys responsible for the 2nd WTC, Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash ...died. Saudi Arabians, NOT Iraqis. Their ringleader is still out and about. And GWB admitted he doesn't think about Osama that much.
I was and am a big proponent of the war in Afghanistan. I wish we would do the same in Saudi Arabia.
We are never going to get rid of terrorism, IMO. New potential terrorists are being raised every day, in every country, of every race, colour and religion. Do we start killing children, then?
Bug, I dance to my own tune. If I didn't, I wouldn't have as many tattoos and guitars as I have. I'm not a sheep, and I have a brain, and for fun i study history and politics. I totally agree with you that the war in Iraq is BS. The Democratic Party is the mainstream party that closest matches my worldview. I will continue to vote Democratic. Let's face it...I can vote the Green Party 'til I get blue in the face, they ain't going to win. But the Democratic Party might. So then, in my local elections, I vote for the more "green" demo or repub candidates....change is incremental, and works its way up the food-chain. I'm in this for the long haul. This fight is not about instant gratification.
The 2006 mid-terms are going to be mighty interesting.
The guys responsible for the 2nd WTC, Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash ...died. Saudi Arabians, NOT Iraqis. Their ringleader is still out and about. And GWB admitted he doesn't think about Osama that much.
I was and am a big proponent of the war in Afghanistan. I wish we would do the same in Saudi Arabia.
We are never going to get rid of terrorism, IMO. New potential terrorists are being raised every day, in every country, of every race, colour and religion. Do we start killing children, then?
Bug, I dance to my own tune. If I didn't, I wouldn't have as many tattoos and guitars as I have. I'm not a sheep, and I have a brain, and for fun i study history and politics. I totally agree with you that the war in Iraq is BS. The Democratic Party is the mainstream party that closest matches my worldview. I will continue to vote Democratic. Let's face it...I can vote the Green Party 'til I get blue in the face, they ain't going to win. But the Democratic Party might. So then, in my local elections, I vote for the more "green" demo or repub candidates....change is incremental, and works its way up the food-chain. I'm in this for the long haul. This fight is not about instant gratification.
The 2006 mid-terms are going to be mighty interesting.
You can dance all you want my friend. I dont have time to dance for I am making sure that now when a child is born in Iraq they have a chance of being something. It is very easy to sit over here in your comfy lazy boy stating that many more Iraq's are not happy we are there. You speak of singing songs? Have you been to Iraq? Or are you just dancing to the tune of the anti-US media? There are many, MANY more Iraq's that thank Ali everyday we are there to help them. The only ones that want us gone are the ones that want the country to be the way it was before, with women being slaves, and mass killings of there own people.[b said:
If you cannot honestly look at the big picture and realize that we are so much safer now that Sadam is gone and Iraq as free elections then your own dancing as fatigued your mind.
If you haven't eaten then maybe it is the lack of food that is making you spew BS, if you are in need I have a spare MRE I could let you have.
>>> There are many, MANY more Iraq's that thank Ali everyday we are there to help them. <<<<
Who is this Ali? Anything like Jeebus? There are as many, or more Iraqis who want us out as who want us in. Unless the people I talk to are lying. Are they enjoying their lack of electricity and water? The bombs going off in their marketplaces? This stuff didn't happen before we became involved, you know.
Iraq was a western style secular state, i.e., women weren't required to be covered. They held good jobs, they were permitted to be educated. IT WASN'T an ISLAMIST STATE.
However, since this constitution you're so proud of was voted in...Iraq will be an Islamist state, where women will be regarded as 2nd class citizens.
Iraq was absolutely NO threat to us. Saddam didn't give one darn about the US. We weren't even on his radar.
As far as mass killings go...how 'bout that North Korea? Or the Sudan? North Korea has nukes that they have very specifically threatened us with.
We are NOT safer because Sadam has been deposed. Since Sadam has been deposed, Iraq has become a training ground for terrorists. US soldiers and innocent Iraqis see it every day. Congratulations, GWB.
Who is this Ali? Anything like Jeebus? There are as many, or more Iraqis who want us out as who want us in. Unless the people I talk to are lying. Are they enjoying their lack of electricity and water? The bombs going off in their marketplaces? This stuff didn't happen before we became involved, you know.
Iraq was a western style secular state, i.e., women weren't required to be covered. They held good jobs, they were permitted to be educated. IT WASN'T an ISLAMIST STATE.
However, since this constitution you're so proud of was voted in...Iraq will be an Islamist state, where women will be regarded as 2nd class citizens.
Iraq was absolutely NO threat to us. Saddam didn't give one darn about the US. We weren't even on his radar.
As far as mass killings go...how 'bout that North Korea? Or the Sudan? North Korea has nukes that they have very specifically threatened us with.
We are NOT safer because Sadam has been deposed. Since Sadam has been deposed, Iraq has become a training ground for terrorists. US soldiers and innocent Iraqis see it every day. Congratulations, GWB.
None so blind as those who WILL NOT see. O71, W9striker, forget it. Understanding is beyond your comprehension. Iraq was not the problem. The leadership here was the problem. There was no terrorism in Iraq, until we invaded them. And the usual repub rhetoric of the anti-American media makes me laugh. Whatever does not agree with your party, is always anti-American. What twisted thinking. I know I am wasting my breath on you guys, as you cannot see the obvious, and your attempts at wit or anything else, falls way short. But, considering where the "party" came from years ago, before they were called republicans, was that only the elite had the know how, and the ability to lead the rest. If you were poor you were nothing. Hasn't changed, Only gotten worse. And you believe every word they regurgitate, and eat it with relish. No independent thought here, just believe what your told, and don't question their authority. OOPS!!!!! Don't forget to go out with your blinders on, boyz! And DON"T listen to anyone who may have an independant thought in their heads! You may learn something you just DON"T want to see!!! AprilH, You make more sense, but your party! Blech! At least you think, whereas the folks attempting to rake me over the coals here, their party hasn't had an original thought for 200 years. Sigh! Repubs just get meaner than hel l when you do not agree with them. And then you become anti-American, at the mercy of the (spin time) "liberal" media, who does not love Amerika (oo! How Nazi!) the way they are told to.
No offense bugweed but just because we don't agree with your views does not mean we're blind. If you want to go that route we can say that you are the one who's blind. I don't believe me or wolf said that we agree with everything said party does. Infact I already stated that they both are out for their own agenda and most of the time don't do what they say they're going to do. What we are arguing is the fact that you do not believe we should be involved in foreign affairs. Me and wolf believe that it is best for our country to be on the offense then on the defense on our own soil. Look what happens when you just sit there and do nothing ala Clinton. Genocide happens, 9/11 happens. It is so easy for people to travel today that it is important to be involved in global matters, especially ones that can deem threats to our security.
P.S. Just because you have your own idea doesn't necessarily mean it is better than another idea. You need all the facts/intel and valid reasoning (which you can't provide besides the fact you hate republicans and democrats which means nothing). Where are you getting your intel? From the media? Or do you actually have classified information that makes you believe that your ideas are greater?
P.S. Just because you have your own idea doesn't necessarily mean it is better than another idea. You need all the facts/intel and valid reasoning (which you can't provide besides the fact you hate republicans and democrats which means nothing). Where are you getting your intel? From the media? Or do you actually have classified information that makes you believe that your ideas are greater?
I'm all for meddling in the business of other countries and giving out massive quantities of foreign aid, but only after we've taken care of all of the problems here first. Until that time I'm more concerned about the threat from within. The environmental hazards we have to deal with worry me more than a potential car bomber. The fact that wal-mart is apparently taking over the planet scares me. Habitat loss, species extinction, the loss of aerable land all have my interest, but I don'tthink the politicians care too much. By the way wasn't this about electing a female president?
nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
Wow it's been a while since I caught up on this post.
I am a big supporter of the UN and many other global organizations. I agree with what they do and the way their systems work. Like most,or should i say all, other superpowers in history the US of A considers itself to be the center overseer of the world. However this is not a job for the US of A. There is nothing that gave the US of A any right to invade the nation of Iraq. Maybe, if the UN had decided to give the US of A the go ahead to invade it may have been a more politically sound war in my opinion. But no, the US of A decided they were better than the little old UN whose opinion only matters when the US wants it to. So they invaded anyway. I believe the UN should recieve more power over issues such as these so hot headed "war-presidents" don't blow away the futures of the next 2 generations of Iraqi's at least. There will be no leaving Iraq if the goals remain the same. You cannot kill terrorism it's like trying to melt an iceburg with a lighter. Sure you melt away little bits of it but more ice forms every day and your work is pointless.
I have one other problem with the united states and it's all the WOMD that they own and develop. Practice what you preach people or is this some kind of world hipocracy with the US sitting on the thrown.
Zac
edited: I apologize, that was my anger getting away with me.
I am a big supporter of the UN and many other global organizations. I agree with what they do and the way their systems work. Like most,or should i say all, other superpowers in history the US of A considers itself to be the center overseer of the world. However this is not a job for the US of A. There is nothing that gave the US of A any right to invade the nation of Iraq. Maybe, if the UN had decided to give the US of A the go ahead to invade it may have been a more politically sound war in my opinion. But no, the US of A decided they were better than the little old UN whose opinion only matters when the US wants it to. So they invaded anyway. I believe the UN should recieve more power over issues such as these so hot headed "war-presidents" don't blow away the futures of the next 2 generations of Iraqi's at least. There will be no leaving Iraq if the goals remain the same. You cannot kill terrorism it's like trying to melt an iceburg with a lighter. Sure you melt away little bits of it but more ice forms every day and your work is pointless.
I have one other problem with the united states and it's all the WOMD that they own and develop. Practice what you preach people or is this some kind of world hipocracy with the US sitting on the thrown.
Zac
edited: I apologize, that was my anger getting away with me.
There was a reason for going into Iraq, I won't list the reasons why again if you want them go look in the previous pages.[b said:
You want to give the global community control over the U.S., especially over decisions which could effect our countries security? Think about what you are suggesting, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
The United Nations was a good idea at best but lets be honest here. The U.N. never acts, because the European nations aren't willing to contribute. One of the cornerstones of the creation of the U.N. was to prevent a genocide such as the holocaust from ever happening again. The U.N. knew about Rwanda, knew it was a genocide going on over there and did nothing. They did the same thing when they inspected Saddam, nothing.
Your terrorists = iceberg analogy is not good. No one said we are trying to 100% eliminate and destroy all terrorism. Sure we can't kill them all but we can sure mess up their organization, their resources, their training camps and even intercept terrorist missions before they happen.
Can people such as yourself please explain how leaving the terrorists alone will make the U.S. and the world a safer place? None of you have laid down a valid counter-argument or a valid counter-plan to get the job done. Instead I have listed why what we are doing is good, and I have listed with examples why leaving the terrorists alone doesn't work. So where is your reasoning?
Before rambling on a list of reasons why throwing away our weapons would be dumb, could you please ramble a list of why throwing away our defense systems would be a great idea? Second question are you Canadian?
