TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
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It may be reworded, but the message is the same:
"Hudson claims, and others have confirmed, that the ORMUS form of all of these elements exists in nature. He also claims that, in certain circumstances, they "look like" other elements. He said that the m-state gold, in various stages of its manufacture, looked like iron, silica and aluminum. Since the naturally occurring ORMUS elements have evaded detection by modern spectroscopy, ever since spectroscopy was invented, it seems reasonable to assume that they are masquerading as other elements."
"Hudson claims, and others have confirmed, that the ORMUS form of all of these elements exists in nature. He also claims that, in certain circumstances, they "look like" other elements. He said that the m-state gold, in various stages of its manufacture, looked like iron, silica and aluminum. Since the naturally occurring ORMUS elements have evaded detection by modern spectroscopy, ever since spectroscopy was invented, it seems reasonable to assume that they are masquerading as other elements."
seedjar
Let's positive thinking!
I'm not going to read things that don't have bibliographies, lol. They aren't useful. That link of your starts out with some patent loads - foremost that astronauts' cells have travelled millions of light years away. Also, he has a very mixed up conception of bosons and fermions. Really... half of these folks can't even spell monatomic correctly.
Here's another thing that I've been pondering... if David Hudson has no formal chemistry or physics training, how is it that he has positively identified, developed, and patented a method for extracting these ORMEs? Aren't they invisible to chemistry to begin with? And how is it that his patented method remains secret to legitimate business and research ventures, while these New-Ager supplement companies seem to make plenty of ORMEs for their products?
Also, why is it that even the most scientific things you bring to the table lack references? That last link even had references to out of body experiences - very unprofessional. I even happen to believe in OOBEs, but I still know that you don't just go making unsubstantiable claims in a scientific document.
I find it hard to discuss 'the more complicated' details of this topic with you when you can't even spot major scientific errors like this.
~Joe
Here's another thing that I've been pondering... if David Hudson has no formal chemistry or physics training, how is it that he has positively identified, developed, and patented a method for extracting these ORMEs? Aren't they invisible to chemistry to begin with? And how is it that his patented method remains secret to legitimate business and research ventures, while these New-Ager supplement companies seem to make plenty of ORMEs for their products?
Also, why is it that even the most scientific things you bring to the table lack references? That last link even had references to out of body experiences - very unprofessional. I even happen to believe in OOBEs, but I still know that you don't just go making unsubstantiable claims in a scientific document.
I find it hard to discuss 'the more complicated' details of this topic with you when you can't even spot major scientific errors like this.
~Joe
I'm getting tired of this, but atleast you seedjar, have brought up some good questions that I shall look into. However, you nep grower... sigh
1st link you posted looks like you wrote it, and that's not a good thing. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO PROVE OR DISPROVE A DARN THING! Just a bunch of useless opinions.
2nd and 3rd links- One guy out of a few I'm sure who are not in this with good intent. Rest assured there will be many to capitalise on thise, but there are even more who are looking to help people. Of the good reputable sellers I've found, none makes claims about their products. They tell about the experiences others have claimed to have, but they don't say that there products will cure so and so. You may see, however, less credible retailers do that.
1st link you posted looks like you wrote it, and that's not a good thing. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO PROVE OR DISPROVE A DARN THING! Just a bunch of useless opinions.
2nd and 3rd links- One guy out of a few I'm sure who are not in this with good intent. Rest assured there will be many to capitalise on thise, but there are even more who are looking to help people. Of the good reputable sellers I've found, none makes claims about their products. They tell about the experiences others have claimed to have, but they don't say that there products will cure so and so. You may see, however, less credible retailers do that.
It's only been scientifically proven that the use of silver will cause argyria.[b said:
http://www.rotten.com/library/medicine/quackery/argyria/ This webpage has good pictures of what people with argyria look like. It's considerably more tame than your usual rotten.com page. Safe for work, and kids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria Wikipedia is not what i would always consider a reliable source, but for scientific articles, it is generally fairly accurate.
Rosemary's Story In particular, check out the links "Argyria Photos" and "Silver Fraud".
Pseudoscience can be very dangerous.
Well I know they have used gold in specific ways to combat cancer. I don't know about silver though. Even colloidal silver would seem quite dangerous to me, but if the topic of ORMEs is true, then it would appear that the ORMEs would not be toxic in any way, and could be very useful in scientific research. I just wish that somebody in this day and age would do some scientific studies to finally settle the question of what this stuff is.
With the amazing claims being made about these elements, you can bet that if there was any theoretical basis for further study, it would have been done.[b said:
That there is no article about this in a proper peer-reviewed scientific journal should be all one not possessing the full scientific background needs to evaluate these claims.
With the incredible claims about so-called "ORME" elements, you can bet if there was anything to it it would be heavily researched in universities and commercial labs.
Being a scientist, I am a big fan of the peer-review process. While it is possible that a self-educated person can make new discoveries, it is very rare, and even then, it will appear in a peer-reviewed journal, sponsored by a professor associated with a respected institution.
If the research does not appear in any proper peer-reviewed scientific journal, then it is very likely junk science.
Back in 1988, I knew the cold fusion was a scam, because the scientists announced their discovery amid media fanfare, rather than publishing in a peer-reviewed journal, first.
Being a scientist, I am a big fan of the peer-review process. While it is possible that a self-educated person can make new discoveries, it is very rare, and even then, it will appear in a peer-reviewed journal, sponsored by a professor associated with a respected institution.
If the research does not appear in any proper peer-reviewed scientific journal, then it is very likely junk science.
Back in 1988, I knew the cold fusion was a scam, because the scientists announced their discovery amid media fanfare, rather than publishing in a peer-reviewed journal, first.
Consider this if you will. When you made the thread about Dr. Turi it received a lot of attention, but not a single poster found his 'predicitons' convincing. In the end, you (fortunately) came to the same conclusion yourself.
The same is true for this topic as well. Not a single poster thusfar has taken this ORME business seriously. Why do you think that might be? Are we all too ignorant or closed-minded to realise the truth?
The judgment of the many can be quite telling sometimes...
The same is true for this topic as well. Not a single poster thusfar has taken this ORME business seriously. Why do you think that might be? Are we all too ignorant or closed-minded to realise the truth?
The judgment of the many can be quite telling sometimes...
Sometimes, but deffinately not always. It is equally good to criticise what the majority believes, and what the minority believes. A good knowledge of history will tell you that my friend. On top of that, not everything is as black and white as you'd like it to be. There can be infinate shades of gray in between, especially if we weigh scientific basis agaianst its effects on humans. I think that as we evolve scientificly and as a whole, you will find that things will tend to get more complicated, and not as simple as we used to think. (redundant I know)
The Turi thing is really not comparable to this. One is prophecy and predictions, the other is science/pseudoscience and health. Two different things that have to be looked at in completely different ways. And like I said, I have seen too many results of ordinary people using it to dismiss the effectiveness of what ever this may be, Monatomic Orbitally Rearranged Elements or not. Let my experience with this stuff be the deciding factor, if not for all of us, then just me.
The Turi thing is really not comparable to this. One is prophecy and predictions, the other is science/pseudoscience and health. Two different things that have to be looked at in completely different ways. And like I said, I have seen too many results of ordinary people using it to dismiss the effectiveness of what ever this may be, Monatomic Orbitally Rearranged Elements or not. Let my experience with this stuff be the deciding factor, if not for all of us, then just me.
