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  1. #65
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    I have dropped the advocation for spiritual claims, because any spiritual affects are completely dependant of the user of ORMEs, and has little scientific basis. Everything else physical and historical can be proven, and ignored if "you" so chose.

  2. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (lol @ Dec. 07 2005,10:55)]Evidently, there are a lot of subject of physics that you DON'T understand, particularly the newer types of physics that they didn't teach you in high school [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_h_32.gif[/img] .
    Fortunately in my time alchemy had no place in the physics classroom. Have things changed?

    I also apologise for not realising that you had a deep understanding of the "newer types of physics". Perhaps you could point me to an article that "advocates the existance of ORMEs" in a scientific context? A research paper published in a well known scientific journal maybe?

  3. #67
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Dude, you really need to start looking into the people who you cite from; it has a big impact on your personal credibility when you get into the world of peer review. Laurence Gardner's public history is characterized by lies, one most notably that he is the 'Presidential Attaché' to the European Council of Princes, which has been demonstrated to be false; not before, not now, not ever. I find it diminishing that Googling any of your sources seems to turn up results from halexandria.org in the top three or four returned. I know it is not fun to be ascribed to a group, but if your topic is consistently related primarily to a website devoted to New-Age philosophizing, it's a New-Age topic. And if you choose to fanatically advocate those views, that makes you a New-Ager.
    I mean, really, take a look at that website; UFO and Bible consipracies, this ORMUS stuff - they even stomp all over mathematics by attempting to argue that transcendental numbers are not transcendental in the philosophical sense. They can't even grasp that the term 'transcendental number' is a simile to the philosophical idea of transcendance. No one in their right mind has ever proposed that transcendental numbers have anything to do with transcending conciousness or the physical plane. That's utter nonsense; I lost a little bit of my love for humanity when I saw it. Come on, they can't spot figurative language? That's a skill tested on seventh-grade standardized reading tests. Clearly, they have no idea what they are talking about and simply grasping at buzzwords from legitimate sciences. Their relation of topics is nothing more than semantic - when I read the articles given there is no evidence that the authors had much more than a passing understanding of the topics in question.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (lol @ Dec. 07 2005,2:55)]Evidently, there are a lot of subject of physics that you DON'T understand, particularly the newer types of physics that they didn't teach you in high school [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_h_32.gif[/img] . *I don't blame you for not being able to understand a lot of the principles behind it, but it's a childish mistake to so needlessly dismiss it because you don't understand, or take the time to learn it.
    Hi, yeah, I'm here at one of the nation's most highly regarded public undergradute science programs, and this year as a four credit aside to my math studies I'm building a particle accelerator with a few friends from my physics class. Outside of school I'm developing the electronics for a compact IR spectrometer for life support applications. When I was in high school I was earning AP credits writing papers on M-theory and recent lab studies of low-temperature nuclear fusion in palladium alloys. And I take pleasure in noting that I was doing these papers from credible, thoroughly reviewed primary sources, not spending my time in idle debate on topics which I couldn't articulate or substantiate. Please don't go telling me what I do and do not know, because I'm sure we could all poke a little fun if we cared to sink to that level.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  4. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (lol @ Dec. 07 2005,10:55)]And you want to know why I haven't reported any views against it? Because I haven'ty been able to find any [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/mad.gif[/img] !
    Perhaps I could help?

    Here's a website detailing all the various pseudo-science scams you're ever likely to encounter. Look under "Really Weird Stuff" for information on ORMEs.

    http://www.chem1.com/CQ/wonkywater.html

  5. #69
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (lol @ Dec. 07 2005,2:57)]I have dropped the advocation for spiritual claims, because any spiritual affects are completely dependant of the user of ORMEs, and has little scientific basis. Everything else physical and historical can be proven, and ignored if "you" so chose.
    OK, first off, how can you scientifically rule out the possibility of a standard 'spiritual effect?' If this stuff really can make me transcend, why wouldn't you? Second, how much of this historical stuff can really be proven? It's written somewhere; so what? I happen to know there are millions of copies of Lovecraft novels floating around; does that mean that some tentacle god is waiting for fish people to sacrifice me to him in the basement of an old Victorian mansion?
    By your argument, the contents of the Bible are also true. If the physical stuff can be proven, where's your proof? I think that the fact that legitimate science resources have no information on ORMEs as an accepted compontent of chemistry and physics places the burden of proof upon you. All I could find was this poke at the work of David Hudson and Laurence Gardner; letters to New Scientist. Oh, wait, here we go; a physics grad student at U. of Michigan on the history of ORMEs.
    Point and set.
    ~Joe

    PS - Hey nep_grower, I think my roommate said he's brewing some wonky water for his medicinal chemistry class, hehe.
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  6. #70
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    OK, in both of the sources you posted, I have note seen or heard of most of the claims that those sources say are invloved with ORMEs. Such as their relation to energised water (which I don't really believe in), and teleportation or whatever that college student was talking about. I search hard for evidence for and against this, and I find far more credible sources that would suggest this is real. If it really wasn't, with the number of people I've seen interested in this stuff, there would be more info against ORmes on the net. It just wouldn't make sense in the real world for that to happen if this was all a hoax. It doesn't happen that way gentlemen.

  7. #71
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Evidence against ORMEs isn't on the net because they were debunked in the late eighties and early ninties, before the World Wide Web was even invented. Nobody credible cares about them any more, apparently. And yes, this is how hoaxes work; some con artist comes up with an interesting or tempting conclusion and disseminates it, then a bunch of people who aren't looking at the topic objectively get excited about it, and banter a bunch of terms around without making any scientific progress or having any regard for what the scientific community cares to contribute. If it's not a hoax, it's still certainly not science.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  8. #72

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    Maybe the reason why there aren't many scientific sources debunking these unsubstantiated claims is because they have been completely ignored by the scientific community from the get go?

    EDIT: Beaten. Couldn't have put it better myself, seedjar.

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