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Thread: GAS PRICES!!!!

  1. #25

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    Hey Droseraguy, you must have gotten your gas in orlando in all of the tourist spots, all of the gas stations around me are between 2.71 and 2.78. I know by Disney some of the stations are charging 3.19 a gallon.

  2. #26
    BobZ's Avatar
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    The cheapest unleaded regular gas in our area (Arcata/Eureka, Calif) is $3.17 and scheduled to go up again soon.

  3. #27
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    I saw 2.89/2.99/3.09 today and there didn't seem to be any fewer cars on the road or more people on my bus.

    When I lived in Mississippi years ago, Wal-Mart was busy opening modest sized stores just outside each downtown and running each store at a loss long enough to drive the competitors out of business. Wal-Mart later closed a lot of them and built one big store to replace 3-4 of the small town stores built 20-30 years ago. I noticed the dead rural downtowns when I was back in Mississippi several years ago.

    Wal-Mart's business model is dependent on customers burning lots of cheap gas to travel much further to megastores to buy stuff shipped from the opposite side of the planet. It'll never be like it was, but maybe there'll be some demand for small, locally-owned stores if customers don't want to spend $10 or more on gas to travel to a Wal-Mart in the next county. I think that would be a good thing.

    As for farming, family farmers have been replaced by high input corporate agriculture, which only has a competitive advantage if energy prices are low. Higher energy prices won't return farming to some kind of Norman Rockwell painting, but it'll make some major changes and I think many will be positive. It certainly should be a big boost to grow food outside of Florida and California.

    A lot of places once had thriving berry, tomato, and other perishable food farmers who were obliterated by produce trucked in from across the country. If the price to supply California strawberries or Washington apples rises enough, people elsewhere can make a living growing them. I see that as a good thing too. Especially because of the enormous subsidies that to provide water for corporate agriculture.

    I'm a socialist now, but I was too far to the right to vote for Reagan in 1980 and have never lost my dislike of the inefficiencies that result from subsidies. I now think they're worthwhile when they are done to further a social good, but putting local producers and retailers out of business isn't good. Neither is encouraging people to have big houses or long commutes. The price of petroleum needs to include all the costs of providing it, especially the monumental military expenditures focused on safeguarding the supply.

    If people want to drive past a local store to shop in a distant Wal-Mart, it's their right. But they need to pay the real cost to get there. And if they want to buy something made 10,000 miles away instead of something made 500 miles away, that's their right too. But they need to pay the real cost to transport it. Rural America was healthy when real energy and transportation costs were higher. And Americans were healthier when the real cost of calories rural America produced was higher.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]It'll never be like it was, but maybe there'll be some demand for small, locally-owned stores if customers don't want to spend $10 or more on gas to travel to a Wal-Mart in the next county.
    While the example isn't quite as dramatic in my case, merely a few miles, I have actually greatly reduced my visits to the larger corporate grocery store in favor of a smaller store nearby, in order to save on gas. Were it not for the fact that I have to buy distilled water and milk, I'd walk it, thereby eliminating the only thing I use my car for.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Higher energy prices won't return farming to some kind of Norman Rockwell painting, but it'll make some major changes and I think many will be positive. It certainly should be a big boost to grow food outside of Florida and California.
    I actually heard of a recent plan to grow large quantities of vegetables in NYC using indoor hydroponic facilities with grow-lights. Considering that such facilities can be stacked many levels deep, they'd effectively reduce the land taken up by farming. Nutrients could be precisely supplied, so no more need to fertilize the soil and cause runoff, and if the growing areas are kept at positive pressure, there's no need to insecticides, as no bugs could move past the pressure differential.

    So we might not get family farms back, but rather something far more futuristic.

    Mokele
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  5. #29
    tiffneycase's Avatar
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    Pacific Northwest ~ here in Oregon gas was 2.69 ,though there are two small perks ~if gas is bought at Safeway I can use my rewards card and get 6 cents off per gallon ` {though i question my food being the "safest way"` my cars tummy stays full with a discount} and also oregons law requires attendants to fill your tank there is no self serve~{great on cold rainy days}

  6. #30
    rattler's Avatar
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    i really dont think you understand the costs of dry land farming Bruce. you need tractors and combines ect and all this takes FUEL, yah cant grow apples, oranges, peaches ect effectivly in Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, and the Dakotas. the winters are to freaking cold for standard fruit trees and even most berry crops not to mention our wind is extreamly hard on them. last night we had sustained winds of 45 mph for 8 hours and thats not actually that unusual, hail storms are common. hell we had straight line winds last year that did more damage than any tornado in the area.

    as far as traveling out of town to shop. im not even refering to Walmart. im talking picking up LFS and such at a mom and pop greenhouse, my reloading supplies at a family owned sporting goods store, ect ect ect. did you know to replace my house if it burns down it would cost $120,000 to build. after i get it built its going to appraise for about $85,000. it costs more to build something in this area than it is actually worth BECAUSE OF COST OF SHIPPING. i fail to see how much higher fuel prices are going to help matters. its going to force more ppl into an urban enviroment so that they can use public transportation. it will do nothing but hurt the dry land farming industry. high fuel costs will only help the big corporations cause they would be able to get away with less equipment cost per acre than the average family farmer and there for be able to pay more for fuel.
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  7. #31
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Unforunately, oil ends up in just about everything we use - either directly or indirectly, whether it's our gasoline, plastics, fertilizers, whatever. If oil goes up, everything goes up. Eventually, as it did throughout the last 2/3 of the 70's and half the 80's, it will lead to a recession / stagflation. There's gonna be a lot of people tossed out of work, worldwide. Unless the administration is serious about finding and getting alternative energy sources (solar, wind, hydrogen,...) implemented, we're all gonna suffer. Ao far I hear a lot of talk - and see no constructive action.

  8. #32
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    I didn't say expensive energy will turn rural areas into a wonderland but that "it'll make some major changes and I think many will be positive." Energy prices will rise whether I wish for it or not and I'd prefer they be rising gradually sooner rather than catastrophically later. An economy & society developed around cheap energy is going to be shaken up and a gradual rumble is better than a sudden boom.

    Rural areas of the upper plains depopulated while energy was cheap because agribusiness replaced people with energy. That depopulation is why your house is worth less than the replacement cost. Mine might be too and certainly was before the price rose during the last decade. That's what happens when there isn't enough demand for a house. The market is a heartless force.

    Demand declined here because so many people moved to auto-dependent outer suburbs and it still costs more to build a house in many of our city neighborhoods than they can be sold for. With higher energy costs, few doubt demand will rise for housing in the city and demand will fall in the outer suburbs. I don't think the effect is so predictable in rural America.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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