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Thread: The immigration issue -- my $0.02

  1. #9

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    A lot of immigrants want to learn to read and speak English because it would enable them to get better jobs, which is what they came to the U.S. for. However, they have to work and take care of their families, leaving no time to go to class to learn English. Cost is another limiting factor. Its one thing to say that immigrants have to learn English, but its another thing to make that happen by creating the opportunities to enable them to do so.

  2. #10
    Admin- I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az. adnedarn's Avatar
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    There are many things that anger me on this topic. I live in Tucson as many of you know... All the SonMex people driving around here, with no insurance driving like idiots- then whent hey hit you, the cops let them go because they dont' carry insurance or anything... And since they are not USA citizens, you cannot take them to court (they say that's what under- insured is for....) ----Advertisement banners are going to spanish around here now, as previously stated by others, the launguage thing bothers me ALOT!---All of our emergency rooms here are closing down... why bring that up? Well, if an illegal gets hurt here (In the long hike across the desert, in a car chase from the cops whatever) we fix them on our own funds then send them back. So they can try to make it again... the hospitals cannot fund it, so they are closing. There is sooo much more that I'm not even going to get into. It is the ONLY reason I've disscussed moving from Tucson, Arizona to be honest. Now that's messed up... I'm thinking of moving because of all the illegals and general over run of non Americans. It seems they treat here as Mexico. Not Arizona. It feels like an invasion to me.
    Andrew



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  3. #11
    rattler's Avatar
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    was refering to all countries of origins, we have a chinese family here running a restraunt. their english is poor but its getting better every month and we can usually get through to each other. the point is they realize they need to know english and are trying.

    personally my wife and i know a smattering of german and a few other languages, not enough to function very well in any of the countries but we do use foriegn words and phrases when talking to each other, especially when we dont want the girls to understand though they seem to catch on fast.

    on my moms side of the family im only the third generation off the boat from Norway. i have no problems with ppl looking for a better life here. but my great grand parents learned english and while Norwiegian was spoke alot at home they and their kids learned english as well cause THIS IS AMERICA and not "New Norway"
    cervid serial killer
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  4. #12
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]was refering to all countries of origins
    Oh, of course, I was just pointing out for anyone who may not know, and to make sure people know I'm not just picking on Mexicans or something.

    I don't expect an immigrant to this country to already know English and all of its nuances. All I ask is that there be an honest effort to try. It's not an like it's an impossible task, even if you work with people who speak languages other than English all day. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have a basic understanding of the language after living here for a couple of years.

    And it doesn't have to be unidirectional (not that it is.) I've taken several years of Spanish- I'm not fluent because I've got other academic endevours to undertake, but the point is that it doesn't hurt people to know a bit of the language in an area where there are a lot of immigrants from a certain area.
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  5. #13
    rattler's Avatar
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    you dont have to be fluent in a language to be able to function in it. if you can get your point across to 3 out of 4 ppl your doing good as far as im concerned. however if your the impatient sort who gets torqued when someone isnt getting your point, than you need to be more fluent in the language.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  6. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Anyone trying trying to tell you that getting US citizenship prevents you from retaining your identity, culture and pride for your country of origin, is feeding you BS.
    That isn't strictly true. US citizenship requires (or required, see below) you to *renounce* alleigance and ties to your previous country, with the exception of countries with which you can have dual citizenship.

    This is from direct personal experience; my folks emigrated here (with me, though I was only 4 months old at time) from the UK. We were eligible for citizenship after 7 or 8 years (I don't remember), but didn't apply because it would have required renouncing allegience and ties to the UK. Our family has been in the UK for well over 1000 years (documented, probably longer), and has been a noble line for much of that time; a (semi-close) member of our family is the Baron of Hastings. Renouncing ties was simply not an option; we got that Barrony by being Royalists, and given my political inclinations, that hasn't changed.

    Fortunately, around about the mid 90's, the US government finally realized that, aside from some scuffles nearly 2 centuries ago and us burning down Washington DC, the UK and US have been allies ever since, and allowed dual citizenship. At that point, we became citizens.

    However, at that point I stopped keeping track, and so I don't know what countries it's possible to have dual US & other citizenships with. The EU would be a fair bet. No idea about Mexico, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]im proud of my heritage but if i was trying to get another country to accept me i would be waving the hell out of that countries flag and not my own.
    I could get away with it, but that's probably because of the whole 'we created you, and you only left because we had a totally crap king at that point'.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]the USA is an english speaking country there for in order to become a citizen i really do think you need to understand the countrys chosen language.
    I dunno, for an english-speaking country, you still seem to have an awful lot of difficulty spelling colour correctly.

    Sorry, I just had to; I love being the immigrant that can claim to have acclimated by learning to mis-spell things.

    -----------

    Anyhow, my biggest issue is the one of legality; My folks and I had to spend huge amounts of time and effort navigating the beurocratic nightmare that is the INS, and I'll have to do the same again soon to get my fiancee over here (also a UK native). I'm tremendously annoyed that others should get a free pass simply because they're adjactent and poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] I am not convinced that enforcing our borders (using means that would be condoned by citizens of a democratic nation) would reduce illegal immigration even to a "reasonable" level.
    In terms of making them unpassable, I'd agree, at the moment, but I'm much more a fan of the idea of having a fence that functions primarily as a sensor, in order to alert authorities with greater accuracy of crossing events. Add some of the new robotic surveilance planes, and the problem becomes a lot more managable.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] Guest worker programs carry a great risk of making the guest workers "inferior" to the citizens. Look at Europe -- guest workers there are marginalised and balkanised, and ready to riot at the drop of a pin.
    In that case, I'd argue that the devil is in the details, and that a suitably advanced guest worker system (perhaps with the number of visas per month depending upon unemployment and other economic stats) would make things much more palatable to all involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] Any legal means of immigration designed to stem the tide of illegal immigration needs to try to remove the incentive to cheat.
    Perhaps making them inelligible for a guest visa for X amount of time if they get caught?

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  7. #15
    rattler's Avatar
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    Mokele, yah make some interesting points and about your comments on how us Yanks spell things, have you ever been to Canada? they say things funny:

    about=aboot
    lieutenant=leftenant
    a=eh

    they has some funny ways of saying things, eh?

    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  8. #16

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    What're you talking aboot, eh?

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