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Thread: The immigration issue -- my $0.02

  1. #33
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Not trying to step on toes here, but if your not a citizen, and do not have the propper documentation you shouldn't be living here. I have no problems with imigration. NONE WHAT SO EVER!! Just play by the rules laid out by this country. Granted it may need to be streamlined, but what beurocracy(SP) doesn't need to be. Illegals are KILLING our healthcare system. Like andrew said many hospitals are closing up shop trying to pay for the emergent care of illegals. The thing is since they do not have healthcare, that means they will go to the ER for any caugh fart burp sneeze you name it. That is their Primary care. Ever wonder why it takes you 8 hours when you go to the ER?? Thats part of the problem. Granted there are a lot of citizens that do the same thing, but those are citizens. Illegals are not suposed to be here in the first place. I work in a hospital, and luckily we are not that effected, but its getting bad. I think we might be the only hospital in the area making a profit, but thats hearsay. I don't know that for a fact. Like Steve said they work here make good money then skip out on paying taxes, and then send all the money home use our resources and then leave most of the time. Its rediculous. Just like a dang locust. Now someone might say that they give fake SSN because taxes are withheld, but if you claim 4 or even higher they take out little taxes, and then if you don't file then the governemtn gets no taxes. Thats why I am so much for the fair tax. Everyone who buys goods here in the states illegal or not will pay taxes. I hate paying them myself, but I do think everyone should pay tier fair share, and illegals are not. So not only are they using our recources for personal gain, but they are not paying their share for it. The ones that play by the rules and either are born here or immigrants are footing the bill. Now the issue on children of illegals. NO THEY SHOULD NOT GET AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP!! Its just another burden on our already strugling healthcare system. Their parents shouldn't have been here in the first place!! Granted I for one do not want to be seen as a heartless b@st@rd, but give me a break. They come over when they are 9 months pregnent. Have the baby in one of our ERs and Boom there is their ticket to staying here. Circumvent the proper channels. Personaly I am sick and tired of paying for the freeloaders in this country. I am not so heartless not to help someone, but there is a different in getting help and being a freeloader. I am all for helping someone get on their feet, but dang it. IF YOU ARE NOT OUT TRYING TO HELP YOURSELF THEN TO HECK WITH YOU!!! This not only goes for illegals, but it goes for ANY freeloader that means all the citizens on welfare wo purposfully work at mcdonalds parttime so they don't make too much money, so they can collect a check, or the ones that falsify who they live with so they can collect the pell grant that grossely over pays for tuition so these students get a 1000 sometimes more dollar check at the appropriate time during each semester, but here I am I have an ok Job and make way to much money, and its not much, to even think about getting pell to help me out. I am lucky we have a thing called the hope grant here in GA or I wouldn't be going to school. I'm just sick of all freeloaders.
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  2. #34

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    Very well said Josh. I will have to add that the learning of English HAS to be a must for citizenship. It is much more then just a burden it can be very dangerous and even deadly in the right circumstances. It should not be a requirement for Police Officers in the USA to learn Spanish in order to safely deal with either people that are here illegally or even legally. It should be the responsibility of the people who want to come here to know our langauge so they know what the police officer is telling them.
    You don't need an iron chest if you have a sharp brain and a silk tongue.


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  3. #35

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    like i said, those who know a second language are most likely to get a raise or get paid more...

    JB_OrchidGuy, are you talking about me or are you beating around the bush? not getting mad or nothing just a topic and let everyone know how we feel about this topic. but remember that this happend a long time ago too, hey there might be an immigrant or two in bloodlines here today so it would be weired saying this now, dont you think? but of couse we have to look at it now!
    \"Nepenthes, the Devil's Cup\" - Santos
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  4. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (wolf9striker @ May 03 2006,2:26)]...It should not be a requirement for Police Officers in the USA to learn Spanish in order to safely deal with either people that are here illegally or even legally. It should be the responsibility of the people who want to come here to know our langauge so they know what the police officer is telling them.
    see, targeting mexicans or hispanics? what about the others, what about china town, korea town, little tokyo, little saigon, little india and so on...
    \"Nepenthes, the Devil's Cup\" - Santos
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  5. #37
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    The US, via World Bank/WTO/NAFTA, forces other countries to eliminate their tariffs & subsidies and open their borders to be flooded with subsidized US agricultural products. Is it any wonder that a flood of people whose livelihoods we've destroyed might come here to try make some money to support their families? The issue's bigger than that, of course, but we've undermined one national economy after another and it's wishful thinking to believe we can grow fat from the rewards without bearing any of the costs.

    And, unless we model our southern border on the Berlin Wall, complete with land mines and snipers, it won't stop people from crossing. Even then it won't prevent illegal immigration; it'll just divert it. Think of the War on Drugs, but with people trying to stay alive instead of just get high. Starving people don't go quietly. When I was a kid, I was taught that razor wire and machine guns only belong on the borders of places like East Germany. Whether killing people to keep them in or to keep them out, it was un-American then and it's un-American now.

    As for the language thing, it's one of the enduring red herrings of US politics. Immigrants don't always learn the language, but most of their children and all of their grandchildren will. It's always been that way and it always will be. I live in a neighborhood of immigrants and there are plenty of households where the oldest generation doesn't know English, the next generation speaks with a heavy accent; and the next sounds as American as my daughter.

    As for the police, we've slashed social spending to the point where the police are the only social workers and therapists many people ever see. What's a little language training if a police officer already needs to be a MSW and a PhD? More to the point, if a community has a significant Spanish presence, it's entirely reasonable for at least some of the police be fluent in Spanish and the others know some phrases. A police officer who'd refuse to learn some words that might save his/her life or someone else's life would be a fool.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #38

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    well said herenorthere.
    im not all for immigration as i know about its downside.
    \"Nepenthes, the Devil's Cup\" - Santos
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  7. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]what about the asians, islanders, and dont get stated with middle easterns and what not. isnt that the reason they started that immigration law thing, for TERRORISTS!? but somehow no one mentioned middle eastern, only mexicans.
    A person's nation of origin has little to do with whether they're a terrorist or not. Need I remind people about the IRA or the Oklahoma City Bombing?

    The purpose of immigration laws is to control how many people come in for economic reasons and to monitor who comes and goes. Too many new people can flood the economy, so the rate must be controlled. Terrorism is a modern concern overlaid upon the original reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I understand that it can be frustrating working with someone who can't speak or understand english but that should be a minor issue.
    As others have reminded you, in certain fields, it would be dangerous to not have the same language fluently spoken. I wouldn't take someone into the field with me if they couldn't understand english perfectly; in the time it takes me to mentally translate, they'd've already stepped on the gabon viper and had 50 cc's of highly toxic venom pumped into them.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Afterall there is no official language of the U.S. and to say that they have to learn english is just saying that you're too lazy to learn a 2nd language yourself.
    I know 3 languages, counting english. However, Spanish happens to not be one of them. I'm certainly not 'lazy' in that standard, but I still cannot understand them. If we see a huge hypothetical surge of immigration from Quebec, should we all be forced to learn French too?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ].... i think now its a must to learn a second language since most schools require it, unless if you are lazy. those who learn a second language or that already know a second language, english, like me, have better chances of getting hired in a densely populated area of immigrants or in an area that is highly diverse.
    But *which* second language? I know english, latin and Japanese, but I don't know spanish. It's one thing to say "learn a second language", but another to specify which. For me, latin was a *far* superior investment of my time, since I use it every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]see, targeting mexicans or hispanics? what about the others, what about china town, korea town, little tokyo, little saigon, little india and so on...
    Well, the hispanic population is the one that's the largest, and the fastest growing. Just by chance, they'll be the biggest concern.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  8. #40
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    You completely missed the point of learning a second language. I'm not specifically calling anyone lazy or saying that it should be forced upon us to learn a second language. All I was trying to say is that it is a small problem in the bigger picture.

    Instead of saying that they should learn and be able to speak clear english, we should be looking at the employers and saying: You shouldn't hire people who can't speak english. It's the EMPLOYER who's causing the dangerous risk, not the worker.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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