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Thread: The immigration issue -- my $0.02

  1. #1

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    I don't think anybody has any good solutions, which means the debate will be especially rancorous, but here are a few things I think:

    * Whenever you have a rich nation adjoining a poor one, there will be incredible pressure to migrate to the rich nation, by any means necessary.

    * I am not convinced that enforcing our borders (using means that would be condoned by citizens of a democratic nation) would reduce illegal immigration even to a "reasonable" level.

    * I don't want illegal immigrants to be abused because they fear going to the police.

    * I don't want to deny essential entitlements to the children of illegal immigrants. No child should have to pay for what their parents do. Those who wish to deny children of illegal immigrants health care and education because "they don't pay into the system" -- where do you think that will leave these children in 10-20 years? What options will they have to support themselves? Is such a policy more or less likely to cause them to turn to crime (or to create a permanent 'underclass'), than simply absorbing the cost of educating them?

    * The US does an excellent job of assimilating immigrants. Our diverse population is generally at peace, especially in comparison to other parts of the world.

    * Guest worker programs carry a great risk of making the guest workers "inferior" to the citizens. Look at Europe -- guest workers there are marginalised and balkanised, and ready to riot at the drop of a pin.

    * Any legal means of immigration designed to stem the tide of illegal immigration needs to try to remove the incentive to cheat.

    I look at all these basic ideas, and I don't see an easy solution.
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    swords's Avatar
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    *Anyone not native american is an immigrant.

    (please keep this in mind suring the ensuing s#^@ fire...)

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    the "native americans" came from Asia originally and are also immigrants.

    as long as the immigrants are gainfully employed and learn to speak ENGLISH i really dont care, but if your coming over to sit on well fare stay where ever you are. watching the protests yesterday one thing stood out and really bugged me, if they want to assimilate into the USA and become American citizens WTF are they doing waving the Mexican flag? im proud of my heritage but if i was trying to get another country to accept me i would be waving the hell out of that countries flag and not my own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] im proud of my heritage but if i was trying to get another country to accept me i would be waving the hell out of that countries flag and not my own.
    That's one thing I thought of a while back, too. It does seem a little bit silly.

    Anyone trying trying to tell you that getting US citizenship prevents you from retaining your identity, culture and pride for your country of origin, is feeding you BS. Anyone telling you that only speaking their native language is the only way to retain your identity (etc) is feeding you BS.

    But there's no perfect solution. I have an idea as to what would be a good start, but other people might disagree. But what can be agreed upon is that there are certain arguments made that are moot.
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    ididnt say you had to only speak English here, just said you have LEARN TO SPEAK AND READ ENGLISH well enough to function. the USA is an english speaking country there for in order to become a citizen i really do think you need to understand the countrys chosen language. i wouldnt move to Mexico and expect everyone to understand english so that i could cope. it is my responsibility to understand that countrys chosen language enough to function in it.
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    SarraceniaScott, I think your analysis is excellent. I also don't have any good solutions, either.

    Did anyone else see Bush complaining that the National Anthem should be sung in English only? He forgot, apparently, that he had it sung in Spanish at his inauguration, and at campaign stops along the way. He even joined in at times. LOL!

    By the way, I live in a heavily hispanic neighborhood. I have no problem with them, and find that, IN GENERAL, they are hard workers just trying to do what's right for their families. The freeloaders should get the boot, ASAP, though.

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    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ May 02 2006,2:11)]ididnt say you had to only speak English here, just said you have LEARN TO SPEAK AND READ ENGLISH well enough to function. the USA is an english speaking country there for in order to become a citizen i really do think you need to understand the countrys chosen language. i wouldnt move to Mexico and expect everyone to understand english so that i could cope. it is my responsibility to understand that countrys chosen language enough to function in it.
    Exactly, that's a problem I've always had. I can understand if the elderly are too old to learn a brand new language, but I'm tired of having people get outraged at me when I don't speak their language in an English speaking country. I think it would be perfectly wonderful for people to bilingual, and surely an asset to society- it doesn't have to be one or the other.

    You should hear my household, language changes ever 3 seconds. The first time I bring a friend over, they get confused when one of my parents says something to me because only bits of it end up being in Enlgish (though both are fluent in English, they're just used to talking to me in mixed.)

    But it isn't only Mexicans, or something: there's very many people of Asian origin who simply do not speak any English. And that's something to remember.
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    i personally am not in a mood to debate the issue but there was this one incident that made me upset:

    my husband's work bought all the Mexican workers a nice wristwatch if they showed up on Monday. wtf so they get a reward for showing up on a regularly scheduled work day? where's the prize for the non-Hispanics who showed up for work? my husband didn't get jack squat. he showed up for work as expected.

    my half a cent

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