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Thread: Natives vs Exotics

  1. #17
    wicked good plants! Presto's Avatar
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    on a purely scientific basis, this guy lacks any merit. "there are...many cases"? how about some data, controlled experiments, references, PROOF?

    there is a HUGE difference between a few lucky individuals making it to a new environment and surviving, let alone reproducing and establishing a population, and large-scale human-driven introduction of non-natives. the migration events he talks about were not constant, large-scale events. these were random events that happened very rarely.

    ecosystems in their natural pre-human state have evolved a relatively constant state of checks and balances. whenever a new species is introduced and becomes established, it lacks that natural balance that it would normally get from other species. sure, it probably won't become a full-blown invasive, but since it's so unpredictable, why take that chance? it could take a million years of evolution before everything's back in balance again. why would anyone want to intentionally tamper with that beautiful, delicate order of things?

    oh, and his major criticism of anti-exotic groups is that they're funded by herbicide companies. what a hypocrite...he's trying to sell exotic seeds!
    -Emily

  2. #18
    rattler's Avatar
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    dont see how i would matter if it did?

    as a highly active hunter and angler i am very pro conservation. however i know what man kind is. all you who want to make a difference i applaud you and will roll up my sleeves and help but in the greater scheme of things what is it really going to do?

    i seem to remember thousands of dollars being put into a couple of seals that were rescued from the exxon oil spil up in AK. as the press wached and cheered as the rehabed seals swam away to enjoy a long healthy life in the wild affter all this money was spent getting them better a couple orca decided they were fast food and had them for lunch.

    should have let the seals die from the oil and purchased more land to be set aside from logging, would have been a wiser investment but it doesnt look as good as releasing a couple seals and ppl get a national pat on the back where signing over a cople hundred acres might have got mentioned in the regional paper. ppl are greedy and its not always money they are after
    cervid serial killer
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  3. #19
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]i seem to remember thousands of dollars being put into a couple of seals that were rescued from the exxon oil spil up in AK. as the press wached and cheered as the rehabed seals swam away to enjoy a long healthy life in the wild affter all this money was spent getting them better a couple orca decided they were fast food and had them for lunch.

    should have let the seals die from the oil and purchased more land to be set aside from logging, would have been a wiser investment but it doesnt look as good as releasing a couple seals and ppl get a national pat on the back where signing over a cople hundred acres might have got mentioned in the regional paper. ppl are greedy and its not always money they are after

    Agreed.

    Those conservation stuff with charisma and media attention get all the money.

    just like humanitarian crises. Who here knows about the crisis in Ungada? It is 'out of vouge' in the media right now, so few have heard of it. Dafur get all the attention and money.
    that makes no logic

  4. #20
    rattler's Avatar
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    BTW Finch yah never answered my question. whe you say your growin "native species" do you mean "local natives" or "North American natives"

    just curious more than anything
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
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  5. #21
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Oh sorry. Both. The medow planting will be local natives exlusivly, the garden is a mix of both. They dont exactly make white varieties of pale purple coneflower and red varieties of Monarda fistulosa (Wild Bergamot) so to fit in with the color schemes and plantings i will use cultivars and north american natives. I like threadleaf coreopsis and Beebalm, coneflower 'white swan' and Rudbeckia 'goldsturm', to name a few. It works as well as any exotics, but again, it is the thought that counts.
    that makes no logic

  6. #22
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]... I've caught snakes in florida and the amazon, and *nowhere* had abundances like Guam. In the Amazon the entire group found a dozen snakes in a week. In Guam, I found 15 in *two hours* just walking along the side of the road with a headlamp. I literally almost tripped over one. (The offical estimate of their density is 14,000 snakes per square mile. 14,000!)...
    But the real question: Do they taste good?

    Ok, well, it's late. I've got something I'd like to post, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow!
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  7. #23
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    It amazes me that people could probably remain as selfish and oblivious as they are now (which is exactly what they're going to keep doing no matter what happens) if our population was down to 5-10% of what it currently is. I've never seen any numbers or studies on it, but I wonder if we could really do that much lasting damage if we had the same lifestyles we have now, just on that much smaller scale.

    That's my #1 wish for the planet I think... some sort of ongoing human population control. It would solve so much. And I can't conceive of any way it could ever possibly happen.

    A pandemic is probably the best thing that could ever happen to us in the long run. Nature's going to have to solve the problem for us. We just don't have the brains to do it.

  8. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Spotlight for the reflective eyes and you'll see alot more.
    Actually, the first thing they told us about catching these was that they don't have eyeshine. Instead, you look for the shine off the ventral scales, which is more difficult to spot, but not too bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Did you notice an unusual abundance of spiders on guam? I hear with the lack of pradators around they are overabundant now
    Not particularly, but we weren't really looking for anything but snakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] i just cant see any way around it being inevitable as long as we are around like we currently are.
    Improved biosecurity measures are one way to reduce it, along with preventing people from owning invasive species.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]BTW as far as "the cure for cancer" it doesnt exist, cancer is not just "cancer" its abnormal cells, and different types can be way to different for the same drug to work on all. it should be "cures for cancers" if you want to get technical.
    Yes, but some of the same uderlying mechanisms are at work throughout, including some of the same genes, and some of the same processes in the tissues. While all cancers are different, all are similar in some ways too.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]as a highly active hunter and angler i am very pro conservation. however i know what man kind is. all you who want to make a difference i applaud you and will roll up my sleeves and help but in the greater scheme of things what is it really going to do?
    Prevent species from going extinct. Every time a species goes extinct, it alters the course of evolutionary history, especially if that species is the sole representative of a larger taxonomic group. Evolution is replete with examples of minor groups happening to be around at the right time and place to have a major adaptive radiation and become key players in the ecosystem.

    In the strictly long-term, nothing matters, because the sun will eventually expand to red giant phase and engulf the Earth, vaporizing it and everything on it. But in the meantime, we can try not to mess things up too badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]should have let the seals die from the oil and purchased more land to be set aside from logging, would have been a wiser investment but it doesnt look as good as releasing a couple seals and ppl get a national pat on the back where signing over a cople hundred acres might have got mentioned in the regional paper. ppl are greedy and its not always money they are after
    That's a complain I also have; spending conservation money on this or that media-friendly cause, when simply buying habitat and protecting it is much more beneficial.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]But the real question: Do they taste good?
    Nope. Snake generally tastes like chicken, but this species has extremely elongate tendons (which is why we sought it out), so it's be like eating a mixture of chicken and dental floss.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Nature's going to have to solve the problem for us. We just don't have the brains to do it.
    Well, I'm doing my part: my fiancee and I are both vehemently child-free.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

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