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Thread: Meet your meat

  1. #25
    moonflower's Avatar
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    i'm a diehard animal lover, but i also like my chickens marinated and grilled. kudos to anyone who can live without meat, but i'm not one of them. i agree with Bruce & Capslock: eating meat itself isn't morally wrong (check out your own dentition sometime... we have pointy, tearing teeth for a biological reason), but the way it's prepared certainly can be. unfortunately, as much as i'd love to buy free-range chicken and organic eggs and what have you, i'm kind of a broke student and i'd like to eat SOMETHING. economics and the wealth of the consumer is not a factor that can be ignored. i am also not averse to vegetarian cooking, it's cheaper than meat a lot of the time and safer to prepare. and i make a mean sweet potato burrito

    one thing i would like to see is the ENTIRE food production industry become more sustainable. maybe not organic, maybe not perfect, but more sustainable. the fishing industry bothers me more than most... the damage done to ocean life and habitats in the past century or so makes Amazon logging look tame. and the extinction that comes with taking too much wild food is permanent.
    "Seeds? Oh yeah... sometimes I forget they grow from those. I feel like they should hatch or something."

    ~a friend's observation of my CP's

  2. #26
    Capslock's Avatar
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    7santiago, you make some good points there. Veganism is certainly a healthy diet, one in which you have to regulate your protein levels and watch what you eat just like any other diet to make sure you're getting what you need.

    However, the eating of meat is not the clear evil you make it out to be, unless you are admitting that the very animals we're saving are guilty of what you're proposing we don't do. Eating meat is a fundamental part of the entire animal kingdom, from meat-eating plants to blue whales. Our own evolution is the product of an omnivorous diet, and we're biologically equipped and predisposed to craving meat (though not exclusively so). I have a hard time judging the moral implications of something that's pretty much a universal biological trait. Hell, a lot of animals would have no problem eating US!

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  3. #27
    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]we get too much calcium, dairy companies pay those idiots in congress to higher the recomended calcuim intake for adults.
    Wheres proof of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]cholestorole is produced in an organ in your body
    Dont we need more than what our body can produce?


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]yes it was a consentration of all the viollence that occurs but there is still extreme cruelty in these meat factories
    3 companies dont care about animal feelings
    4 companies rather expand than buy pain killers
    5 companies rather buy growth harmones and steroids than painkillers
    You say companys dont care about the animals? Rember that Most Of the PETA actavists only use the Places that Abuse the Animals? Show me footage from every Factory place that has proof of EVERY company doing this?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]health:
    1a vagens live longer
    1b my vegan great grandmother lived to 98, she outlived all but two of her six child family
    2a countries with high vegan populations are the most fit
    2b I dont think i have ever seen a fat vegan
    Well Health is also Heriditory, as is Age. Ive seen Many Healthy People who eat a healthy diet that includes meat. Just cause some one says they love meat doesnt mean they eat MEAT 24/7! Its a part of a balanced diet and some one wanting to take intereste in eating healthy.

    Have you noticed how alot of the cases are Fast food joints??

    thats the problem fast food + people who dont care about healthy diets= heavy set people!

    I hate to say it But people who catch fish, and Spray pesticides is no problem in what youre saying.

    Have a good day sir!

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]1a vagens live longer
    I'd like to see some statistics to back this up.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]1b my vegan great grandmother lived to 98, she outlived all but two of her six child family
    Annecdotal evidence is worthless. You cannot prove squat from a single case, which may have just been an anomaly.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]2a countries with high vegan populations are the most fit
    That's because they're third-world countries where few people can afford meat and where most people spend all day subsistence farming. 12 hours a day of back-breaking labor makes you fit no matter what you eat.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]2b I dont think i have ever seen a fat vegan
    Yes, that's called long-term protien deficiency. It's why even Buddhist monks are *not* vegan or vegetarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]3 companies dont care about animal feelings
    Factually incorrect; a great deal of effort goes into finding the fastest, most humane was to euthanize animals. There is *copious* regulation for animal welfare in *all* situations; I know, I have to deal with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]4 companies rather expand than buy pain killers
    Um, what? Have you forgotten that these animals are made into *FOOD*?

    I like to season my steak a lot of ways, but I draw the line at sodium pentabarbital.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]5 companies rather buy growth harmones and steroids than painkillers
    See above about the painkillers. And, unlike painkillers, such hormones tend to break down when cooked.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]There are no magical nutriences that can only be found in meats
    Wrong: Vitamin B12 Without it, your kidneys stop working, and you develop neuropathological symptoms like permanent nerve cell death. It is *ONLY* found in meat from herbivores (being originally produced by bacteria).

    And that Spirula stuff? Worthless, it's not real B-12, and is not metabolically active in humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]6 protien deficiency is extremely rare
    Wrong. It's very common, but rare in the western world. Most people eat what they farm, and cannot just get 80 different fruits and veggies from the local supermarket.

    In fact, protien deficiency is the *specific* reason one of the Dali Lamas signed an edict allowing Buddhist monks to eat meat.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]7 cholestorole is produced in an organ in your body
    Meat does not automatically mean high cholesterol. Ever had turkey or chicken?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]8 we get too much calcium, dairy companies pay those idiots in congress to higher the recomended calcuim intake for adults.
    Show me clinical evidence that we get too much calcium. From a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Then explain why osteoporosis is such a problem in old people.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]THE ANIMALS WERE HERE FIRST!
    And what are we, rocks? We're a type of animal, like any other. Our brains are a trivial difference.

    Also, does that mean I can kill all mammals, so that reptiles may once again rule? After all, they were here first.

    Who was here first is astonishingly shabby logic, and I'll just pretend I didn't hear it to save future embarassment.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]one thing i would like to see is the ENTIRE food production industry become more sustainable. maybe not organic, maybe not perfect, but more sustainable. the fishing industry bothers me more than most... the damage done to ocean life and habitats in the past century or so makes Amazon logging look tame. and the extinction that comes with taking too much wild food is permanent.
    There've been great leaps and bounds of progress in those areas lately, you'll be glad to know. Fish farming is becoming an economically viable and even profitable optian, and new greenhouse technology (positive pressure and hydroponics, along with the use of pest predators) may eliminate the need for open fields and herbicides/pesticides. Slowly but surely, we're moving to more sustainable ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Our own evolution is the product of an omnivorous diet
    Actually, there's more to it than that: one of the more widely-held and better-supported theories concerning human origins holds that our brains were *only* able to evolve because we either scavenged lion kills or beachcombed for shellfish.

    Without meat, we'd be just another dumb ape.

    --------------------------------

    Of course, this leaves the entire ethical/philosophical area untouched, and that could be fun, given how the entire ethical basis of veganism is based on unsupportable and useless assumptions. But I guess that's for dessert.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  5. #29
    7santiago's Avatar
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    Capslock, good point , i dont think i would be a vegan if we had nice little happy farms that produce our food, but instead we have factories that treat animals as a machine. A stupid creature they can do anything to.

    nepenthes_ak

    1.
    PROOF? LOL, i laugh!

    what more proof than the fact that every single country in the entire world aparently needs less calcuim,

    clearly americans are special, RIGHT?

    We are an entirely diffrent race and species. *sarcasm*

    2.
    Does high cholestorole ring a bell?
    We eat more cholestorole than we need in the fist place that is why we have the excess cling to the walls of our arteries and clog those nice lil tubes that keep us alive.

    3.
    now this is funny, you think companies would care more for the happyness of these "worthless" animals rather than for money?

    go on google, ive found out that
    kfc and mcdonalds chicken providers has been boycotted for animal violence
    just imagine those whop arn't reported

    4. here i must agree, but those who exclude meats in their diets tend to be in the croud of the fit, i have seen many meat eaters that are amazingly fit and healthy.

    sorry for the tone of slight aggersion,

    good day sir!
    Mens Et Manus

  6. #30
    Capslock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (7santiago @ May 26 2006,12:15)]Capslock, good point , i dont think i would be a vegan if we had nice little happy farms that produce our food, but instead we have factories that treat animals as a machine. A stupid creature they can do anything to.
    I agree completely 7santiago! That's why we need to know about these things!

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  7. #31
    7santiago's Avatar
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    HELLO again

    mokele,

    1.
    here is a lil kiss of death
    "A study published last year in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition reviewed data from six studies that included people who ate meat less than once a week. The study also looked at new findings on the life expectancy of longtime vegetarians in the Adventist Health Study.

    The authors of the Journal study found that a very low meat intake was associated with a significant decrease in death risks in four studies, and a significant decrease in the fifth study. Two studies also indicated that being on a vegetarian diet for a longer time contributed to a significantly greater decrease in mortality risk."

    2. not tring to prove anything but instead an observation

    3. thats true, i agree

    4 yes of coarse, sliting an animal's throat and having it bleed to death is tooo humane

    5. how is this an argue?
    HAVE YOU FOGOTEN ANIMALS HAVE NERVES THAT FEEL PAIN?!

    6 LOL kidney beans, brocoli ,spinach, brussels sprouts,almonds ,sweet potatoes ,cabbage, asperagus, and bananna all have b12
    try again!


    7 VEGANS DONT HAVE PROTIEN DEFICIENCY! brocoli has 6 grams of protien per serving, spinach has more, lets not even start with legumes

    when you only eat rice, its kind of hard not to die of some deficiency
    FACT: IN CAMBODIA THE WORD TO EAT LITERATLY MEANS TO EAT RICE

    8
    chicken is only a little behind beef, check it out before you actually argue

    9
    no, it is not the quantity we get but if we can absorb it, deficiency in vitimin D or chemicals in prosessed foods can affect the quantity.
    thank soda for ostroporosis

    10
    by animals I ment to exclude homo sapiens, im sory you couldn't derive that conclusion on your own.

    good day
    Mens Et Manus

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]PROOF? LOL, i laugh! what more proof than the fact that every single country in the entire world aparently needs less calcuim,
    And I say that you're flat-out wrong about that. Show me a source. I'm not going to believe *squat* until I see a source from a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Anything less is worthless dreck.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]We eat more cholestorole than we need in the fist place that is why we have the excess cling to the walls of our arteries and clog those nice lil tubes that keep us alive.
    This is only tangentially related to meat, namely beef and pork and how they are prepared (fried, grilled in fat, etc). Lean-cooked beef and lean meats such as chicken and fish have little cholesterol.

    And, I should note, that you need *some* dietary cholesterol for normal metabolic functioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]now this is funny, you think companies would care more for the happyness of these "worthless" animals rather than for money?
    You are technically right about that....

    ...but that's why we have government agencies, BIG, POWERFUL ones to *make* then care. I speak from *direct* knowledge here; there are *several* government and independent agencies that routinely inspect these places.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]kfc and mcdonalds chicken providers has been boycotted for animal violence
    just imagine those whop arn't reported
    Considering the accuracy rate of the animal-rights crowd, that means nothing.

    PETA actually bothered my university once because they heard there was animal testing, and they actually broke in and vandalized a lab....

    ...a PLANT lab. So much for their ability to find evildoers, or even find their way around a well-labeled building. I'm amazed they can tie their own shoelaces.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]here i must agree, but those who exclude meats in their diets tend to be in the croud of the fit, i have seen many meat eaters that are amazingly fit and healthy.
    Define "fit", and present statistics to back up your assertion.

    Just because you're thin doesn't mean you don't have high blood pressure or a weak heart.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

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