[b said:Quote[/b] ]Vegetarianism's always been an option. You just didn't go to the butchers and visited the bakers and vegetable seller.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Social change for reasons of morality has made a lot of countries a nicer place to live in. We tend not to see medieval methods of torture nowadays in most countries. People realised that's not really a nice thing to do, and now vegetarians think it's not a nice thing to eat animals. All the usual health stuff that's trotted out is ludicrous - we're meant to be omnivores etc. etc. If humans didn't change and adapt and progress, we'd all still be living on the plains in Africa.
Most of the vegans I know (maybe 4) don't preach at all. I think the ones who do are in the minority. The percentage of preaching vegans is probably the same as preaching meat eaters. Well, maybe not but who cares.[b said:Quote[/b] (jack @ May 27 2006,3:11)]Unfortunately veganism seems to have become a quasi religion with its followers demanding you believe what they do or else your butt scum. Please don't preach to me the ethics of eating meat and I wont preach to you the ethics of eating the relatives of carnivorous plants.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Unfortunately veganism seems to have become a quasi religion with its followers demanding you believe what they do or else your butt scum. Please don't preach to me the ethics of eating meat and I wont preach to you the ethics of eating the relatives of carnivorous plants.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Yes, but why are you assuming vegetarianism is a positive change?
[b said:Quote[/b] ] Additionally, any moral/ethic system is, by it's very nature, based on assumptions which cannot be tested. Some are widely agreed upon (basic human rights), while others are not, but popularity doesn't actually mean anything in terms of how likely a moral basis is to be true. Vegans have the assumption that killing is inherently wrong and that extends to animals, but that assumption is just that; an assumption
[b said:Quote[/b] ]So just because someone has a new idea that lets them get up on a pedastal and say how much more moral they are than the rest of us doesn't mean anything.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Not actually; it depends upon your location and the availible foods. Some areas are blessed with a natural abundance of nutritious vegetables and fruits (which is why Mesopotamia became the birthplace of civilization), while others do not have such a diversity and *require* meat for survival (try telling an Inuit from AD 50 that he can live off native plant life alone.)
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Now you're assuming that everybody giving their views on this topic is preaching they are more moral than the rest of us, which is not true, as Dyflam mentioned.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]If I lived on an island with no animals, I would *require* grass for survival.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]If Mr Inuit really did want to stop eating meat he could, but moving. Ludicrous yes, but my point is that anybody can do anything if they have a belief.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]No, I meant the social shift enabling vegetarianism to come into existence is positive. Social progress is a postive thing - women getting the vote would be one example. My personal opinion is that vegetarianism is positive, but social progress enabling choice and fairness is certainly positive.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]leave me alone to eat what I want and do my research.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]My question would be if all the vegetarian and vegans dislike meat so much, why do they make veggie food to look like meat products? There are veggie sausages, veggie bacon ,veggie pies flavoured to taste like chicken. I have even seen vegetarian steak made from Quorn. Almost all vegetarian products in supermarkets simulate meat products. Why
[b said:Quote[/b] ]I know vegetarians and vegans who say they dislike the taste and texture of meat too.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]By the way, only vegetarians are expert enough to be in on this discussion and the rest of you should get lost.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Usually it's the reverse, and they often don't know what they're talking about
[b said:Quote[/b] ]What needs to be defended?
[b said:Quote[/b] ]And you do?
[b said:Quote[/b] ]I know of only one vegetarian I've yet met who can defend her position thoroughly enough for me to respect it.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Your notion that there is a position to be defended, it has to be defended, and that the defence of that position is rewarded by the honour of your respect is unbelievably arrogant.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]You don't have to ignore your values, but there's no good reason to toss out a sentence like "I know of only one vegetarian I've yet met who can defend her position thoroughly enough for me to respect it." Cogent and logical debate can be just so much mental masturbation. And that kind does cause blindness.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]You seem to picking an argument where there isn't one.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]I'm not telling you what to do, and there isn't a position for me to 'defend'.
[b said:Quote[/b] ]The world doesn't care about whether you have respect for people or whether you live your life according to logic and structure your qualifications of appraisal on that system.