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Thread: Meet your meat

  1. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]"A study published last year in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition reviewed data from six studies that included people who ate meat less than once a week. The study also looked at new findings on the life expectancy of longtime vegetarians in the Adventist Health Study.

    The authors of the Journal study found that a very low meat intake was associated with a significant decrease in death risks in four studies, and a significant decrease in the fifth study. Two studies also indicated that being on a vegetarian diet for a longer time contributed to a significantly greater decrease in mortality risk."
    Interesting, but you conflated mortality risk with lifespan. Just because you're at lower risk for some things does not mean you necessarily have a longer lifespan.

    Also, note that the study is NOT on vegetarians or vegans, but on those who ate meat once per week or less. You cannot generalize beyond that to vegetarians, as there are many more complicating dietary factors.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] yes of coarse sliting an animal's throat and having it bleed to death is sooo humane
    Show me where this is used as the exclusive kill method, and I don't mean in places that were shut down.

    Decapitation is not a humane method of killing, but it's often used in labs as a backup after a humane method, in order to be sure the animal is, in fact, dead. Throat cutting sounds like a logical choice for a secondary backup method, especially since, as it's not the primary, the chances the animal would be alive are minimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]HAVE YOU FOGOTEN ANIMALS HAVE NERVES THAT FEEL PAIN?!
    Have you forgotten that without a function brain, they cannot feel pain, and that's why most methods of slaughterhouse euthanasia focus on the immediate and instantaneous destruction of the brain?

    No brain, no pain. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]LOL kidney beans brocoli spinach brussels sprouts almonds sweet potatoes cabbage asperagus and bananna
    Is this in reference to the B12 or protien? If the former, you're wrong, no plant produces B12. If the latter, in what context is this? I notice that most of those foods are temperate or tropical. So what do you do if you're a poor farmer in a hot savannah?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]VEGANS DONT HAVE PROTIEN DEFICIENCY! brocoli has 6 grams of protien per serving, spinach has more,
    And where do you get those veggies? The supermarket. Now what about the people who live in third-world countries, who have to grow their own food?

    Veganism is a modern luxury, allowed only by the production of multivitamin supplements and the rapid importation and transportation of crops around the world. A century ago, veganism meant starvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]chicken is only a little behind beef, check it out before you actually argue
    Read my post. How it's cooked is a large part. Lean chicken (skinless) is a lot better than a McDonald's Hamburger patty, but not terribly much better than a well-grilled lean cut of beef. What cut is used and how it's prepared massively affect the dietary quality of a food.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]no, it is not the quantity we get but if we can absorb it, deficiency in vitimin D or chemicals in prosessed foods can affect the quantity.
    So it's *not* calcium deficiency, it's vitamin D deficiency that prevents us from *utilizing* the calcium. Big difference, and that doesn't mean squat about some vast, evil dairy conspiracy. In fact, they add vitamin D to milk for just that reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]by animals I ment to exclude homo sapiens, im sory you couldn't derive that conclusion on your own.
    I don't draw irrational conclusions, and that's a doozy.

    Humans *are* animals, like it or not. We're no better or worse, not spiritually superior, nothing. We're just smarter, and that has no more distinguishing value than the ability to change the color of one's skin to hide does.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  2. #34

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    Interesting topic. Moonflower beat me to the pointy teeth comment, lol.
    I was "thinking" you could not get the full range of amino acids from fruits/vegetables, but there are probably synthetic versions. I may be waay wrong
    My battle is with the breads/starches. Doritos are tasty, but evil.

    Cheers,

    Joe

  3. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Jeremiah Harris @ May 25 2006,5:36)]rattler_mt you don't like elk hmm? Are sure, have you ever had a Colorado cow elk before? Next time you are come to the Springs I will have to make you something, like my famous elk Philly Cheese Steak Sandwich with mushroom oh man it make me hungry just thinking about it.

    -Jeremiah-
    ill take you up on that. actually i love elk, its much better than deer or speed goat or most any but the finest beef(some of my uncles beef from cows off his pasture land thats been properly aged beats it out though). bison is even better than elk. believe me i get much more excited about one of us having even just a cow elk tag than most anything else. a bull would be better but thats mainly cause the area i hunt gives out very very few bull tags.
    cervid serial killer
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  4. #36
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Quote
    yes of coarse sliting an animal's throat and having it bleed to death is sooo humane


    Show me where this is used as the exclusive kill method, and I don't mean in places that were shut down.
    I have to disagree with you here. I have worked in two different slaughter houses, both for pigs. I have also seen how chickens are killed.
    In one pork slaughter house (Lundy's in Clinton, NC) the kill method was a slit in the throat. The other (Smithfields in Tar Heel, NC) the method was a shot from a piston driven gun.

    The animals were unconscious and the time they received the fatal injury. They are knocked unconscious by a device called a stunner. The stunner has two conveyor belts on both sides of the animal at a 45 degree angle. When the animal enters the stunner it runs up on the conveyor. It is lifted so up to a height of about 7 ft. During the lifting process, two probes are lowered and makes contact behind both ears. The probes delivers electricity between 600 and 1200 volts, depending on what the stunner is set on. Both places I worked had the stunner set on 650 volts. At the top of the stunner the hog in placed on a slide. It slides down to where it is killed.

    The chicken slaughter house I saw was in Raeford NC. The chickens are hung by one foot. It's placed on a conveyor live that takes the chicken to a V shaped blade. The blade cuts the head off as the chicken passes by.

    Not all animals in these slaughter houses are killed the same way. Injured and some some other animals are killed in different ways.

  5. #37

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    Still, it's only used on unconscious animals in the case of the mammals, thereby bypassing the issue of pain. As for the chickens, decap might be humane for them, due to the insanely rapid metabolism of birds which would lead to brain death within moments. It's primarily inhumane when used on ecotherms, whose heads can survive for a substantial length of time separated from the body (in terms of half an hour or more).

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  6. #38
    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    Just a comment or two...

    About the teeth: Gorillas have nice big nasty canines. And, as far as I know, their diet is like 96% vegetation (the non-vegetation part being things like termites and grubs). There are some other pretty good evolutionary reasons to keep big nasty teeth around...

    I'm on the fence about the whole meat issue, but you hear the tooth argument brought up in every debate, and I just want to remind people that it has flaws.

    And regarding what Moonflower said:
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]one thing i would like to see is the ENTIRE food production industry become more sustainable. maybe not organic, maybe not perfect, but more sustainable. the fishing industry bothers me more than most... the damage done to ocean life and habitats in the past century or so makes Amazon logging look tame. and the extinction that comes with taking too much wild food is permanent.
    This may be totally unrelated, but I don't think our methods are our biggest problem in sustainability... it's our numbers. There's just too friggin many of us. The world is too small to feed our gaping maw. I wonder where our population will be when we finally figure out how to make things sustainable for today's population. 10 billion? 15? Can our methods ever keep up?

    I'm not disagreeing, of course our methods are a problem. Just a rant not directed at anyone in particular... wishing I could find hope for the future I guess.

  7. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]About the teeth: Gorillas have nice big nasty canines. And, as far as I know, their diet is like 96% vegetation (the non-vegetation part being things like termites and grubs). There are some other pretty good evolutionary reasons to keep big nasty teeth around...
    Canines in apes and monkeys are directly related to both sexual dimorphism and, more importantly, to mating systems. In a system like that of chimps, where, while status matters, everyone still has at least *some* chance of mating, the canines are small, while in systems like that of gorillas, where one male totally monopolizes a harem of a dozen females, the canines are large. They're such a good indicator of sexual-selection intensity that they're often used to make inferences about fossil apes and monkeys.

    However, there's more than just the canines; our premolars also bear the mark of an omnivore, as does out digestive system both at the anatomical and chemical level.

    I do agree, though; canines specifically are a poor example in primates, because of their role as a secondary sexual characteristic.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  8. #40
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] I was "thinking" you could not get the full range of amino acids from fruits/vegetables, but there are probably synthetic versions. I may be waay wrong
    There are combinations of vegetables and fruits which will allow for all of the essential amino acids; rice and beans is one combo if I recall correctly. There are others, too.

    It's already been said, and probably beaten to death by now, but saying that animal production for food is like the Holocaust is one of the most idiotic, self centered, and generally offensive things I've ever heard. I wont go deep in to it, I already refrained from posting a rant on it. I'm not easy to offend, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]This may be totally unrelated, but I don't think our methods are our biggest problem in sustainability... it's our numbers. There's just too friggin many of us. The world is too small to feed our gaping maw. I wonder where our population will be when we finally figure out how to make things sustainable for today's population. 10 billion? 15? Can our methods ever keep up?
    Well, methods of growing grain (say for feed) has become much more efficient. One of the biggest problems though is the polarity of the ag business. We've got jerks abusing it one way (Monsanto terminator genes, etc, etc) and jerks who say that any sort of genetic engineering is evil.

    People often cite the organisms created in labs which feature a plant with the a section of animal DNA incorporated in to the plant's DNA, giving it a property of the plant. Tobacco with firefly genes, tomatoes with freeze-resistant fish genes, and so on. "They're feeding us Frankenstein food!" they say; but the fact is that these are lab created products, and they STAY in the lab. "There's no controll over genetically modified foods!" they say; which is absolutely correct- except for the FDA and scores of other groups closely monitoring genetically enhanced foods.

    It's been stated before; veganism is a luxury, something that most people on this planet cannot live by and survive. Then we have people in this country trying to enforce THEIR luxury on other countries. There's the famous case where there were tonnes of corn that were given as relief food to parts of Africa were turned down because people in "certain" groups convinced the leads of those countries that the corn was dangerous because it was gentically modified! Scarey!

    What's scarey is that people with so little regard for other people have so much power. They don't care about the starving people. No, their agenda is what matters. We have people who are completely out of touch with what the rest of the world needs, shirking the things that can help to save it.

    I've been keeping up in this topic for the most part, but refraining from posting. However I'm glad to see that we've got a lot of well informed people here.

    Now I'm not saying if you're a vegan that you're misinformed. By no means. I believe that everyone has the right to chose, and if that choice is that you want to eat meat or GE food to live, then by golly, make it!
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