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Thread: Meet your meat

  1. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Then who? The public, who has even less understanding? Politicians, who will flat-out ignore facts if it lets them pander to the ignorant masses? Or a new group of experts in public health policy? I'd go with the latter; at least they've got enough information to know what they're doing.
    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]To claim that Joe Sixpack can evaluate the situation better is nothing but a product of the populistic anti-intellectualism that poisons US culture
    Unfortunately it's Joe Sixpack who decides who runs the show...
    "You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public" -Scott Adams-

  2. #58
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Unfortunately it's Joe Sixpack who decides who runs the show..
    Wow, I didn't know JBL had so much power.

  3. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Meat very good. We're omnivorous creatures for a reason: Until the investion of the supermarket, vegetarianism wasn't an option. There is nowhere on earth (i.e. area in which a human can walk to gather their food/ farm food without technology) that would suppor the human metabolism on pure vegitarianism.
    Vegetarianism's always been an option. You just didn't go to the butchers and visited the bakers and vegetable seller. Of course, before supermarkets the culture was different and your family would probably have called you ungrateful and you'd cause problems for yourself socially. Vegetarianism has come about because of a social shift - I think it's good. Social change for reasons of morality has made a lot of countries a nicer place to live in. We tend not to see medieval methods of torture nowadays in most countries. People realised that's not really a nice thing to do, and now vegetarians think it's not a nice thing to eat animals. All the usual health stuff that's trotted out is ludicrous - we're meant to be omnivores etc. etc. If humans didn't change and adapt and progress, we'd all still be living on the plains in Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]There is nowhere on earth (i.e. area in which a human can walk to gather their food/ farm food without technology) that would suppor the human metabolism on pure vegitarianism.
    I don't know what you mean here, but to be honest it sounds like drivel.
    Alexis Vallance, U.K.
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  4. #60

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    So what is being argued here? Is it whether or not people can survive on a soley vegan diet(assume no supplementation) or is it the ethics of eating meat. It seems to be the former...I'd think that should be pretty clear cut at this point.

    We eat meat here but steak tends to be a rarity...usually it is fish, chicken or similar. Sometimes lamb. But its hard to beat a steak. Made a bunch of Wonton last night.
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    Drosera capensis

  5. #61
    jack's Avatar
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    Unfortunately veganism seems to have become a quasi religion with its followers demanding you believe what they do or else your butt scum. Please don't preach to me the ethics of eating meat and I wont preach to you the ethics of eating the relatives of carnivorous plants.
    'Celebrate the birth of our nation by blowing a little piece of it up'.The Simpsons.
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  6. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Vegetarianism's always been an option. You just didn't go to the butchers and visited the bakers and vegetable seller.
    Not actually; it depends upon your location and the availible foods. Some areas are blessed with a natural abundance of nutritious vegetables and fruits (which is why Mesopotamia became the birthplace of civilization), while others do not have such a diversity and *require* meat for survival (try telling an Inuit from AD 50 that he can live off native plant life alone.)

    That said, the areas that can support humans on a strictly vegan diet are very few and far between. The odds are better for vegetarianism, but until the past few centuries, when global trade made a wide variety of crops availible to people from all over the world, even that would have only rarely been sustainable without *some* animal products.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Social change for reasons of morality has made a lot of countries a nicer place to live in. We tend not to see medieval methods of torture nowadays in most countries. People realised that's not really a nice thing to do, and now vegetarians think it's not a nice thing to eat animals. All the usual health stuff that's trotted out is ludicrous - we're meant to be omnivores etc. etc. If humans didn't change and adapt and progress, we'd all still be living on the plains in Africa.
    Yes, but why are you assuming vegetarianism is a positive change? Because it's new? Plenty of new social fads have arisen that are clearly bad (ex: female genital mutilation being carried out all over africa and asia for similarly 'moral' reasons). Humanity has not been one glorious march of progress; various new ideas and ways have taken us backwards (hence the Dark Ages). So just because someone has a new idea that lets them get up on a pedastal and say how much more moral they are than the rest of us doesn't mean anything.

    Additionally, any moral/ethic system is, by it's very nature, based on assumptions which cannot be tested. Some are widely agreed upon (basic human rights), while others are not, but popularity doesn't actually mean anything in terms of how likely a moral basis is to be true. Vegans have the assumption that killing is inherently wrong and that extends to animals, but that assumption is just that; an assumption. I, on the other hand, view death as not even a part of life, but the *basis* of life; everything feeds on death and destruction, and even our own bodies are made of elements produced only in the death of stars. My position has no more inherent truth, though, and is just as untestable. So basically, do what you want, but don't tell me that I have to live by someone else's rules.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
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  7. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (jack @ May 27 2006,3:11)]Unfortunately veganism seems to have become a quasi religion with its followers demanding you believe what they do or else your butt scum. Please don't preach to me the ethics of eating meat and I wont preach to you the ethics of eating the relatives of carnivorous plants.
    Most of the vegans I know (maybe 4) don't preach at all. I think the ones who do are in the minority. The percentage of preaching vegans is probably the same as preaching meat eaters. Well, maybe not but who cares.
    There's a tunnel at the end of the light...

  8. #64
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    All may have been to generalized, but it seems that they are a very vocal group.
    'Celebrate the birth of our nation by blowing a little piece of it up'.The Simpsons.
    My grow list ~http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=107403

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