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Thread: Pouching CPs in North Carolina

  1. #9
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    CopcarFC will wind some people up. I think habitat loss is a greater problem than wild collection, but each needs to be addressed.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]wild collected they will never go extinct because people grow them and nurseries reproduce them by the thousands. So I don't really see why anyone cares that they are wild collected.
    Nurseries reproduce one single clone by the thousands. Replant those back into the wild and the lack of genetic diversity will produce poor and weak plants. Only a few nurseries grow them from seed.
    Sarracenia oreophila is so rare that there are populations with 1-10 plants, which struggle to repopulate their area and have a poor gene pool. If it was so easy to replant because of the thousands nurseries churn out, we wouldn't have CITES I listed carnivorous plants.
    Wild plants should be protected. The 'we'll just replant them when they go extinct' argument is flawed.



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    RL7836's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (0zzy @ June 23 2006,11:56)]I was thinking of posting this article. I was trying to decide if it was a good idea to publish to the poachers how you plan to catch them.
    From the article...
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Mattox added that the program works not by marking every plant, but by leaving poachers guessing as to which ginseng plants have been targeted for the dye.

    "We would rather educate and deter than arrest someone," he said, "and that's what this program is doing."
    Part of the plan is to let the poachers know what they're doing. It becomes a deterrent ...
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    I too am shocked by that remark, CCFC. Maybe if you explained the reasoning behind your statement, it would clear things up a bit. Otherwise, it would be easy to think you have no scruples, and would collect, just 'cause you feel like it. Care to comment???
    As Alvin so kindly pointed out, where is the genetic diversity? Tissue culture gives you the SAME genetic stamp over and over and over. Hard to pass genes to a plant whose stamp is the same as the one before it. NO THANK YOU!!!! I will stick with my genetically diverse plants I have right now. All 100+ of them. The color forms I get, are intense! And all different!
    45 yrs. growin\'
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    BTW. I meant to ask. What is pouching CP??? I don't think I've ever done that. Is there a technique to it??
    45 yrs. growin\'
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Alvin Meister @ June 25 2006,10:52)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]wild collected they will never go extinct because people grow them and nurseries reproduce them by the thousands. So I don't really see why anyone cares that they are wild collected.
    Nurseries reproduce one single clone by the thousands. Replant those back into the wild and the lack of genetic diversity will produce poor and weak plants. Only a few nurseries grow them from seed.
    Sarracenia oreophila is so rare that there are populations with 1-10 plants, which struggle to repopulate their area and have a poor gene pool. If it was so easy to replant because of the thousands nurseries churn out, we wouldn't have CITES I listed carnivorous plants.
    Wild plants should be protected. The 'we'll just replant them when they go extinct' argument is flawed.
    Dude you know just as well as I do that there are TONS of VFT cultivars. There are far more than "one" genetic stamp on what is in your yard/greenhouse/bog. Hell, Bugweed proves my point perfectly. He has a bunch of different VFT types that are allowed to intermingle and fire out some great seeds that have tons of genetic differences. No matter how you look at it the "VFT-A has the same genes as VFT-B so they will make weaker offspring and eventually die out" theory is 100% wrong because...

    CopcarFC buys a VFT from Wallmart.
    He brings it home and sits it next to his unknown VFT from Bugweed.
    They both flower and make seed.

    You see the Wallmart VFT was reproduced by the thousands from one plant. But Bugweeds VFT is not, so when they mix the seeds are just as strong as they would have been in the wild.


    Now I am not saying we should put VFT's back into the wild. I don't think VFT's hold any value to the ecosystem. But Sarra's, Ping's, and Nep's are so widespread that they must hold some value to the enviroment so they should be protected.
    My life sucks

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Dude you know just as well as I do that there are TONS of VFT cultivars. There are far more than "one" genetic stamp on what is in your yard/greenhouse/bog. Hell, Bugweed proves my point perfectly. He has a bunch of different VFT types that are allowed to intermingle and fire out some great seeds that have tons of genetic differences. No matter how you look at it the "VFT-A has the same genes as VFT-B so they will make weaker offspring and eventually die out" theory is 100% wrong because...

    CopcarFC buys a VFT from Wallmart.
    He brings it home and sits it next to his unknown VFT from Bugweed.
    They both flower and make seed.

    You see the Wallmart VFT was reproduced by the thousands from one plant. But Bugweeds VFT is not, so when they mix the seeds are just as strong as they would have been in the wild.
    Good luck trying to replace 100,000 plants with seeds from a few seedpods. One person's collection and 'tons' (5 or 6?) of cultivars are not going to repopulate a massive area any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Now I am not saying we should put VFT's back into the wild. I don't think VFT's hold any value to the ecosystem.
    So you're saying a) poaching is ok and b) VFTs are worthless so let them go extinct?

    Bizarre.



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  8. #16
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (CopcarFC @ June 25 2006,11:19)]Dude you know just as well as I do that there are TONS of VFT cultivars.
    I think it's worth pointing out here that many cultivars are closely related, and more than that, they often display less vigor in exchange for their exotic looks. Plants bred for a certain form are already inbred to some extent and aren't as valuable to the genepool as wildtype individuals. Bugsy and other veteran growers might have a few caches of healthy wild-collected plants, but how many of those plants remain compared to the hundreds of thousands (probably millions) that have been taken by poachers? They've been poached for decades; a few educated growers may have saved a small fraction of the population, but how much could it be? Maybe one percent of the plants harvested in the past, say, fifty years? Even that sounds like a generous estimate to me; it's probably more like a fraction of a percent.
    ~Joe
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