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Thread: Home owner

  1. #9
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]proving that you will stand up for yourself, your family and your property is a good thing, lets the criminals know your not going to cower in a corner while they walk out the door with your stuff.
    But the question is, does running over some guy who was probably out of his skull do you any good? Does running down a 50 year old man on a bike constitute "protecting your family"? How well will the father who shot the molesting neighbor be able to protect his family during his stay in the slammer?

    I dunno. I know it'd definitly be peeved off in all of the above situtations, but you gotta keep some measure of collectedness. Call the cops as you follow the guy so you can tell them where he is, you don't gain anythin of of running him off the road. You protected your family and investment by gonig there at midnight and checking the place out and ctaching the badguy.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Don't get me started on child molesters!The way I see it is all you need is a tall tree and some good rope!
    But a small tree creates the illusion of possible escape! ..."My feet... can .. almost touch the ground..."
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  2. #10
    rattler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Evrald Cumming said the houses have been burglarized at least a dozen times, so he decided to show up in the middle of the night to check on the properties.
    sounds like stealing has been a problem. chances are its been the same person(s). doubt this person is going to do it again. prolly would have wound up as being petty theft and the guy would have walked with a fine. seems to me he got what was coming to him with a better deterant than a fine as to not doing it again.

    if that father winds up in the slammer i bet his family gets along just fine. yes its bad for the gil that she is going to loose her father for awhile but you can bet she is going to know exactly how her father feels about her. someone messes with my wifes daughters they will not get off lightly.
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  3. #11
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    I was going to respond to this topic but Rattler pretty much expressed how I feel.

    One thing I'd like to add though.

    Cops risk their life to do their jobs. Firemen do too. In fact most people risk injury or death every day they work, including me. I'm an electrician and I know that everyday I go to work may be my last. I even had a real close call last week. It's a risk that I accept. Like I said almost every job has risks. Everybody that does that job knows about and has to accept those risks. Being a thief is no different.You know that every house you rob may be your last. You know that there may be a gun on the other side of that door. You know that if you break into that house the person inside has every right to wound or kill you. It's just the occupational risk of being a thief.
    I risk my life to earn the money I use to buy my stuff. If somebody wants to come and take my stuff from me, then they will have to risk their life too.

    I'm sure that the home owner won't have to worry about his house being broke into tonight though. Problem solved.
    LOL

    I saw a sign one time that said "Nothing I own is worth your life."

  4. #12
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    When I was a kid in the 60s & 70s, I lived in suburban subdivisions with new houses popping up all around us. All us kids collected deposit bottles, played in houses under construction, and took nails and wood (mostly scrap, in our eyes anyway) to build forts. I suppose somebody could shoot us for taking building supplies if we were in modern Florida.
    Bruce in CT

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  5. #13
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    There is a difference between kids taking some scrap wood and a few nails to build a fort and a lazy adult taking things you have worked for over and over. Most intelligent people can see that difference.

  6. #14
    Lauderdale's Avatar
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    I agree with Rattler and Ozzy and if I may point out something. We have had a carry law down here for at least twenty years and to the best of my knowledge only one person who owned a permit was ever found guilty of abusing his right to carry.
    Also, We have the "no retreat" law and 10/20/life down here now. The criminals are well aware of our tough laws.

  7. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I think it's insane to risk killing someone over a few rolls of wire. Here in CT, a little girl told her mom a neighbor had molested her. Mom told dad and dad went right over and shot the neighbor. Now dad is facing a long time in prison and has added even more hurt to his daughter. Vigilantism is pure self-indulgence.
    These are different situations so the analogy is invalid. Unless the father saw the neighbor molesting his daughter he was making a decision on hearsay, which is notoriously unreliable. I would agree that unless someone is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt no action should be taken until a further investigation can be made.

    However, in the story linked in the OP the thief was clearly observed steeling the materials. I'm not sure how you can argue that he was innocent when he was actually caught in the act of stealing. Note also that our 'vigilante' did not attempt to harm the perpetrator. It seems clear that his purpose was to detain the thief. He did not get in his car and attempt to run the guy down; he simply cut him off. Your presentation of this situation is a strawman argument.

    The thief broke the law. I'm not sure why so many insist he should still have rights when he has committed a crime, willingly given up his rights, and is in the process of attempting to flee justice.



    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]But the question is, does running over some guy who was probably out of his skull do you any good?
    Perhaps.

    Our justice system relied almost 100% on negative reinforcement and the threat of such to function. There is a direct relationship between the severity of laws and the rights of self and home defense and the amount of crime in an area. Where the populace is allowed to carry weapons to defend themselves and are allowed leeway to use those weapons the crime rate drops considerably. In other words, allowing a criminal's life to be placed in jeopardy reduces the number of innocents placed in jeopardy in future crimes. The question becomes: Do we allow a thief's life to be placed in jeopardy if it means several innocent lives will not? In most situations I would take that as an axiom.



    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Call the cops as you follow the guy so you can tell them where he is, you don't gain anything of of running him off the road.
    I would agree that this would probably be the optimal solution, and I have already considered my reaction to these situations and decided this is exactly what I would do. Follow while reporting the thief's progress on a 911 call. However, I've noticed that few other people take the time to determine the best solution to situations like this; this guy probably didn't think a bit about what he would do until the situation was upon him. I would say he kept his cool rather well and handled the situation in a reasonable way, considering.

    Again, I have to point out that this characterization is a straw man. He did not 'run him off the road', but merely cut him off. We do not know all the details of the situation, but I find it unlikely that someone riding a bike could not dismount without injury if impact with a stationary object was imminent. Further, I find it unlikely that the thief was not warned or commended to stop before this took place. He made a conscious decision to risk injury.

  8. #16
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    To cut off a bicyclist with a car risks killing the bicyclist. I don't believe it's worth doing that over some wire. You might feel it's worth risking a thief's death over some wire, but I don't.

    Many police departments only risk a car chase for certain crimes because of the risk. Here they'll chase a murderer or kidnapper, I suppose, but not a car thief. Car thieves are often kids out for a joy ride and, if they can be caught, great. But the police don't want to risk killing them or bystanders with a high speed chase through the city. They've decided it isn't worth it, whatever beneficial negative reinforcement might come of it.

    As for:

    "There is a direct relationship between the severity of laws and the rights of self and home defense and the amount of crime in an area. Where the populace is allowed to carry weapons to defend themselves and are allowed leeway to use those weapons the crime rate drops considerably."

    the discussion has been about Florida's liberal gun laws (using the dictionary definition of liberal), yet Florida has the highest, or one of the highest violent crime rates of any state. It was also much easier to buy and carry guns where I grew up in Mississippi than it is here in CT, but the rates of crime and violence are higher there. There are way too many factors at play and I'd never claim the availability of guns is the cause of crime anymore than I'd say it's the cure. Nothing in life is as simple as we'd like. But guns probably do help turn assault into murder, since a fight is much more deadly if someone is carrying a gun.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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