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Thread: The upcoming election

  1. #89
    Lauderdale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Jeez, that's the whole basis of this. Our involvement over there has been going on for a long, long time.
    I understand that and you are correct. I believe we should have just let the whole Middle East “have at it” from day one and waited until the dust cleared.

    We backed the Taliban only because Russia was the big bad boogey man at the time and after their defeat, the Taliban seized power and morphed into a horribly repressive regime that formed an alliance with Bin Laden. I believe we should have stayed out of it and let them duke it out. If Russia had succeeded, what would they have gained? I mean, it not as if Afghanistan is a valuable chunk of property. That said, we had to try to avenge 9/11.

    The British put him in power but we were wrong in backing Reza, the Shah of Iran. However, he did rule a country that had huge oil reserves. I guess all of our presidents since 1941 thought that he was better than the alternative that we have now.

    We backed Saddam in his invasion of Iran because he was the lesser of two evils and even that was a mistake. The only reason we invaded Iraq the first time was because of their invasion of Kuwait.

    As I mentioned in my previous post, if we had left Saddam in power, he and Iraq might still be trying to knock each other off. The possibility of Russia and China getting involved was simply too great of a risk to take.

    I do think the estimate of us causing 600,000 deaths since we invaded Iraq is way off base.

  2. #90
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I don't really like the government of isreal ever since they started attacking lebanon relentlessly. Very unproportionate of them (is that a word? lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Capslock @ Oct. 31 2006,6:55)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Would that have prevented 9/11? What did we do prior to invading Afghanistan and Iraq that got the Arab world so PO'd at us?
    Jeez, that's the whole basis of this. Our involvement over there has been going on for a long, long time. The whole Islamic Revolution stemmed from our support of an evil (secular) dictator in Iran, the Shah. Our military presense in Saudi Arabia has angered fundamentalists for a long time. And we back the Taliban (against Russia), then hate them. We back Saddam (against Iran) then invade and overthrow him. Heck the entirety of Iraq is an artificial conglomeration of three regions that were subject to Brittish rule until after WWII. (Brittain invaded Iraq in 1941 to secure oil rights lest they fall into Nazi hands.)

    But maybe the biggest reason they hate us over there is our unconditional support if Israel. Yes, most of that is religious intolerance, but Israel was just sort of shoved among them without a whole lot of input from the neighbors there. So you have an increasingly strident religious rule in the region, in part due to our imperialistic and capitalistic interference, and partly due to the poverty and lack of education they suffer with.

    I can say with a good deal of confidence that they do not hate us for our freedom or standard of living. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were pretty well off. Most were Saudi, aligned with OBL in their criticism of US military presence in their most holy lands in Saudi Arabia. That's where the 9/11 attacks came from. Now, they hate us because we invaded and occupy Iraq for no good reason, killing as many as 600,000 people by some counts. This confirmed their worst fears about American intentions in the region. Honestly, I don't think many were too upset that we toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan (now THEY are the "no fun of any kind" party.)

    Capslock
    Very well said Capslock.

    Especally the part about our unconditional support of Isreal. Though its not based on religious intolerance. Most Muslims are very tollerant of both Jews and Christians, that is until we start droping bombs on their heads. Look into the history of how Isreal treats its Arab Muslim neighbors and you will see why the United States is hated in the Middle East. Massacres of hundreds of civilians by Isreali Military forces and what happens, Isreal pretends like it never happened and next time they illeally invade another country they make sure to destroy the TV stations and the UN obersvation post that is meant to protect against another massacre. There is also the occupation of Palestine, which includes imprisonment of palestinians who have commited no crime but wanting an independent Palestine, destroying palestinian villages to build Jewish only settlements, the over use of force to kill any Palestinian that does something Isreal doesnt approve of, destruction of Palestinian orchards, and the list goes on and on. The reason I know this makes us unpopular in the Middle East is because I have talked to several people (mostly in Jordan though a few in Syria) who have said their biggest problem with the United States is our unconditional support of Isreal. Do you have any Idea how many UN resoultions have been passed against Isreal, I cant remember the exact number but its well over 60 and Isreal has more UN resoultions passed against it than any other nation on earth. This is why many Arab Muslims do not like the United States.

    Also as a side note please everyone stop treating Arab Musilms, Muslims, and Arabs as interchangable. Also please do not treat them as one homogenous group with a shared set of values and beliefs, as many, infact every Muslim (even the 3 Iraqis I met who had fled their home country) I have ever talked to found what happened on 9/11 an outrage and completely unacceptable. The people who commited the attacks of 9/11 were extremists and their beliefs are not held by the majority of Muslims. The presence of US troops in Saudia Arabia however is a sore point for many Muslims as this is their holy land.

    Also Arghanistan is not populated by Arabs, they from the Indian subcontinent and are ethnically differnt from arabs.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #92
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Which is why we need a more secular government! The US is always sticking with isreal because it's "God's chosen land".

    "Also as a side note please everyone stop treating Arab Musilms, Muslims, and Arabs as interchangable. Also please do not treat them as one homogenous group with a shared set of values and beliefs, as many, infact every Muslim (even the 3 Iraqis I met who had fled their home country) I have ever talked to found what happened on 9/11 an outrage and completely unacceptable. "

    Were we? I don't know any Muslims as I live in the middle of nowhere, but I think it would be cool to. Middle eastern men are HOT!

  5. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ Oct. 31 2006,10:36)]Which is why we need a more secular government! The US is always sticking with isreal because it's "God's chosen land".

    "Also as a side note please everyone stop treating Arab Musilms, Muslims, and Arabs as interchangable. Also please do not treat them as one homogenous group with a shared set of values and beliefs, as many, infact every Muslim (even the 3 Iraqis I met who had fled their home country) I have ever talked to found what happened on 9/11 an outrage and completely unacceptable. "

    Were we? I don't know any Muslims as I live in the middle of nowhere, but I think it would be cool to. Middle eastern men are HOT!
    When I said that I was refering to most people in general. If there is one thing I got sick of hearing when I told people that I was going/have been to the Middle East it was "why, THEY attacked us" as in all muslims and all arabs were the same, its one of my only little pet peeves and i have seen arab Muslims refered to as THEY, which implies a one minded homogenous group.

    Also although i was not checking out the men, Arab women are extremly beutiful, its too bad they wouldnt talk to me.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  6. #94
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    when I was a kid I thought arab women were like Jasmin in Aladdin, they wore sports bras and showed their stomachs. Boy was I wrong!

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    Republicans have broken their Contract With America (remember that?). The Contract With America said that Republicans would stand for fiscal conservatism. However, under their leadership, our country now has record deficits. The Contract said that Republicans would stand for national security. However, the threat of terrorism has actually increased under their watch, according to a recent report by US intelligence agencies. The Contract said that Republicans would stand for moral leadership. However, Republicans put a higher priority on retaining political power in the US House when they ignored reports of a fellow Republican who had made sexual advances toward pages. Since the Republicans have broken their Contract With America, it is time for America to break with the Republican Party.

  8. #96
    Lauderdale's Avatar
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    I have a few questions.

    -Was there anything that we, the British, Spain or Italy did to the Muslims that would justify the murder of thousands of people Caps?
    -So, John Kerry was duped into voting for the invasion before he voted against it?
    -John Kerry said that a person who doesn't get a good education gets stuck in Iraq. Is it time for him to apologize to our soldiers?


    -Didn't Hamas start lobbing rockets into Israel before Israel invaded Lebanon ktulu?
    -Does Israel not have the right to exist?

    -How is the economy doing Tropics?
    -What are the unemployment figures?
    -Wasn't there some Democrat who made sexual advances toward an intern and a campaign worker?

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