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Thread: The upcoming election

  1. #25
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Ok folks. This is escalating into something ugly.

    There are ways of expressing your opinions that are not inflammatory. Do not use accusatory language like "you stole it".

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions and their different lifestyles. If you can't discuss or debate this issue without getting ugly, please drop out of it or this topic will be locked.

    Keep your statements to "I believe"..."It's my opinion", etc. And do not try to convince someone their beliefs are wrong. Diversity is a good thing. Everyone has something to offer no matter how differently we may think on issues.

    No. 1 Rule. BE NICE.



    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  2. #26
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Personally I believe everyone is entitled to follow what religious beliefs suit them. But it is not OK to force others to live by someone else's religious beliefs. And unfortunately too much religion is embedded in our laws. I believe strongly in separation of Church and State.

    I have never been able to understand why anyone cares how someone else lives their life as long as they are not hurting anyone. Who cares if Joe Smith down the street is gay or straight. If more people minded their own path through life and stopped trying to insert themselves into someone else's private business, we'd be much better off.
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  3. #27

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    Yaay, a party!! It's been a long time hehe... I used to waste a lot of time on threads like this

    This upcoming vote is going to be a first for me, here's my attempt at a priority list.. The trouble is depending on your view these issues can be interpreted very differently, but here goes:

    -Environment
    -Constitutional rights
    -Illegal immigration
    -Civil rights
    -Gun control
    -Taxes
    -Iraq war
    -Afghanistan war
    -Big government
    -Oil prices
    -War on terror
    -Economy
    -What the rest of the world thinks of us

    On side note, homosexuality and heterosexuality aren't inherently different. You could add bestiality and incest to that list. On some level, they are all based on the same motives. Still, neither homosexuality or heterosexuality alone constitute marriage. Marriage can be the ultimate human relationship, and hopefully goes beyond people screwing around. It's about two people becoming like one. That's not the same as friendship, the bond between two people. Marriage is a unique two-in-one deal and I've only seen it work between men and women. We can either make a seperate legal status for superficial heterosexual bonds or for homosexual bonds, or we can recognize marriage for what it is, strive for or reject it, and move on. And if you'd like to discuss any of this, pm's are welcome.

    cheers,
    Peter
    the cellist

  4. #28
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Oct. 25 2006,7:43)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    And the broken, worthless foster system that bounces kids from home to home with no semblance of stability or family is somehow better?
    Have you read the studies on this? Apparently not. The best environment for a child that is growing up is to have 2 parents, 1 of each sex. If you truely believe in what you stated that homosexuality is caused by genetics, what is the child to do if he's not genetically homosexual? The problems the child would face are obvious.
    OK, this is a stupid and pointless argument to present, but please tell us, explicitly, what you're getting at right here, because I'm not quite sure I believe a reasonable person could come up with what I've read into your comment. Or maybe I'm just missing the 'obvious.'
    Are you suggesting that living in a loving household with a stable gay couple is a worse fate for an orphan, over being tossed around without guardians between foster homes and institutions until the court would emancipate them? Just how much worse could it be? Verbal, physical, emotional and sexual abuse are not unusual for foster children - are you honestly going to claim that the embarassment of having two dads is going to outweigh that? Do you know any gay couples? Do you know anyone who grew up in foster homes? As someone with both friends who were orphans and friends who grew up in same-sex households, I can confidently say that that is one of the most absurd assertions I have heard in recent times, if ever. I'll say right now that I don't have the research to back it up, but from what I know about foster kids I'd be willing to wager that there is as much, if not more, homosexual abuse perpetrated from within the foster system than in homosexual adopted homes. Is this really about protecting kids from harmful situations, or is it about protecting them from the idea that homosexuality is OK?
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    If a person thinks it's ok to murder someone and actually does murder someone, I can have compassion for the murderer. Just because I have compassion and forgiveness for the murderer doesn't mean that I agree with what he did or his beliefs of murdering.
    So here you're talking about the pithy kind of compassion where you feel kind of bad but don't actually care to think about the person's situation, then? How is this example at all applicable? For one, since when did a person's sexual orientation become harmful to others? And don't go pointing to sexual deviance, that's another ballgame altogether. Besides that, accepting that sexuality is not a choice, how can you condemn it the way you would a willful act? That's no different than sexism, racism, or any other type of discrimination; systematically treating people differently based on their immutible attributes.
    And just for the record, American schools suck. Universally. Have you been to a school lately? Talked with any college kids recently? The best school I've ever been to was in Korea. American kids at my university are idiots; even the smart ones lack basic skills in their fields of interest. They have not been prepared by a compassionate, or even competent school system. Students from other nations, even some supposedly third-world nations, are far more prepared, so much that it's scary. When I was in Korea I went to a public high school where every student was involved in graduate-level art studies - you just don't find programs like that in the States, like it or not. We have exceptional students, but our educational system is decades behind.
    As for important election topics, what about government accountability? That's a topic I never see in the elections. What would really get me into the voting booth would be some laws requiring politicians to enact the policies they run with.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  5. #29
    Lauderdale's Avatar
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    I did not intend this turn in to a theoretical discussion of homosexuality/heterosexuality, simply, what are the most important issues you think we are facing at this time.
    Discussion of these issues is perfectly acceptable but flat out arguments are not. As PAK said…play nice boys and girls.

    I am really surprised that the war on terror has not been mentioned as a high priority item. There really are a large number of people out there that want to kill us and impose their brand of religious fanaticism on the whole world. How quickly we forget.

    I also wonder about the lack of concern about illegal immigration. I am currently involved in a construction project that is manned by mostly Colombian Nationals. It is hard, dirty, dangerous work. They are well paid; very few speak English, all are here legally, pay their taxes and are hard workers. Here in Fort Lauderdale/Broward County our unemployment rate is at 3%, so we need them. Why can’t our government set up a guest worker program that works?

  6. #30
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    Wow! Don't sign on for a couple of hours and look what happens.

    My political agenda, such as it is:

    Education
    Civil rights (leave me the &^%! alone, big bro - this includes the gay thing)
    environment
    immigration

    Now, with respect to the discussion at hand:
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]References please? If you want to get factual these "Christian" churches were not Christian but one of the many cults that branched off Christianity. Infact there's still a branch today in the U.S. that marries gays. Any church that marries gays and calls themselves "Christian" is not a Christian Church because it goes against the Bible. It's a counter-feit.
    I always hear christians say that being gay is forbidden by the Bible. Where?
    Is it "though shalt no lie with another man?" Is that what you're referring to?

    I look at that commandment this way - it a commandment to WOMEN! Remember, when you get married, they often pronounce you MAN and wife....so it's the Bible's way of saying "don't cheat on your husband."

    Now, Outside is completely entitled to his (her?) oppinion - that one of the things that makes this country great - however, one of the things that makes an individual great is recognizing when they're wrong.

    The simple fact is that there is no good (peer reviewed) scientific evidence to support your view - in fact, there is plenty (as has been mentioned) of evidence to say you are incorrect.

    This DOES NOT MEAN that you have to change your view. It simply means that you loose the athority to impose it on me.

    The murder reference: There is an abundance of evidence that shows murder is bad for people (see: BODIES). Therefore this is not a valid comparrison. I understand that homosexuality is a sin in your moral code, but laws are based on how actions effect people/society, not moral codes (or they should be, anyway).

    My two cents!
    17 Nash Rd.
    North Salem, NY 10560

    YOU! Outta my gene pool!

  7. #31
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Oct. 25 2006,10:15)]Clint I'm sorry you were offended by my position/opinions I honestly meant no disrespect towards you. When I said I have compassion I meant that and no you don't really know me. If I interacted with you in real life I would treat you the same way I would treat anyone else, with compassion. Just because I have compassion for you and care about you just like everyone else doesn't mean that I have to share your views and tell you I agree with you.

    When you posted your opinions, I could have easily jumped on it and made a scene like you did. Instead I respected your post and posted my opinion/views and what did you do? You jumped all over me because my view is opposite yours. Why can't both views be posted? Why is it OK for you to post your perspective but as soon as I post mine I'm a hypocrite, blind person with no common sense? I'm willing to see both perspectives, maybe you are the blind one?

    So they actually found the cause of homosexuality? That's news to me! How do you feel about homosexuals who find Jesus Christ and then turn heterosexual? How did they change their genetics?
    No, I may not know you but unfortunately i've had my fair share of people like you. That's why i'm agnostic.

    You may treat me like an equal to my face, but in my opinion and experience after we parted you would go vote for politicians that want to treat me like dirt. I'm going to hell anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter how i'm treated here. There a big difference between "not sharing my views" and , in my opinion, posting on a public forum where you really don't know everyone, how gay's shouldn't have kids, get married, etc. And worst of all,in my opinion, you have to drag religion into a political debate! religion is IRRELEVENT, acording to the seperation of church and state, in a political discussion. It's fine if you want to be a christian but don't drag the old "Because the bible says so!" argument into a political discussion.


    You did respect my first post. That's true. I'll give you that. It's nullified by the nonchalant content in your post, though. But that's just MY opinion.

    "How do you feel about homosexuals who find Jesus Christ and then turn heterosexual? How did they change their genetics?"

    I feel they are supressing their nature. I could have sex with a woman right now, and it wouldn't mean I was straight. It's not so hard to make yourself do something if you think you'll go to hell because of the old "FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!" scare tactics.

    Insert "blacks" or "jews" wherever it says "gay" in your post. Maybe that will show you why everyone is so angry.

  8. #32

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    The war on terror... Terrorists people aren't just generally hateful people who arbitrarily pick the U.S. or Israel to bomb. They are willing to commit suicide because they somehow believe they're doing society a favor. If we were really helping folks out, they wouldn't hate. If they had comfortable lives, they probably wouldn't hate us. The fact is that U.S. foreign policy with our need to control everybody's problem while we sit here watching it through our giant plasma TV's has made us as many enemies as friends.

    Schloaty, Romans 1. Romans 2 is also relevant to our discussion.

    Also, even without the Bible you could reach its same conclusions by natural law.
    the cellist

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