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Thread: The upcoming election

  1. #33
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Natural law.... homosexuality is not a choice. It's natural. I've always been gay. Ever since I was a kid I've like dudes, althought not sexually at such a young age. Yes, i've got a masculine father and a straight brother. I've got a great relationship with my dad. Don't start that "lack of masculine influence" stuff. I was never molested or abused, and I played with cars and other little boy toys. I think I had a pretty normal, priveledged childhoon. Lucky for me the only time i've been in a church was at a narcotics anonymous meeting.

    Look at the gay apes/monkeys. That's pretty natural. Oh man, I hope they hear the word of god soon!

  2. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]References please? If you want to get factual these "Christian" churches were not Christian but one of the many cults that branched off Christianity. Infact there's still a branch today in the U.S. that marries gays. Any church that marries gays and calls themselves "Christian" is not a Christian Church because it goes against the Bible. It's a counter-feit.
    First, sorry I missed this. The reference is the book Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe, By John Boswell. It contains extensive documentation, and shows this not just isolated sects or cults.

    Second, you're engaging in the "no true scotsman" fallacy. If they accept the divinity of Jesus, they are Christian, period, no matter how much you disagree with them. They're a different sect, but their belieifs are very bit as legitimate and grounded in scripture as yours are.

    Or do I get to say you aren't a true Christian because you violate Jesus' most important teachings on tolerance, compassion and love for one's neighbor?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I am really surprised that the war on terror has not been mentioned as a high priority item. There really are a large number of people out there that want to kill us and impose their brand of religious fanaticism on the whole world.
    Well, I plan on voting against those individuals who plan to impose their religious fanatacism on the world in this upcoming election.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Also, even without the Bible you could reach its same conclusions by natural law.
    Yes, let's all adhere to natural law!

    All those in favor of caring for your young and growing them internally? Ok, that's 4000 species-votes.

    All those in favor of injecting your eggs into a living host, which your young then devour from the inside until they explode forth from it in a shower of blood and guts? Ok, that's 20,000 species-votes.

    The votes are in, time to use a parasitiod mode of reproduction. The mammals have been over-ruled!

    Nature isn't moral, merely effective, and can be brutally so. Murder, violent act, and truly horrific parasitic infestation are all common (over 50% of living species are parasites).

    Also, as JLAP pointed out, and is *extensively* detailed in the book Biological Exuberance, homosexuality is very common in nature. In fact, we have observations of homosexual mating in species in which we don't even have observations of *heterosexual* mating.

    The arguement that homosexuality is against nature is simply factually incorrect; it is abundant and present in species from apes to beetles.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  3. #35
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    This is the last post I'm going to make in this thread. I'm sorry that you have taken what I've said like you have. The purpose of posting my opinion/perspective was to do just that. I never directed what I said as a personal attack on anyone and I'm sorry you took it that way. I'm sorry you cannot understand being able to love someone, and have compassion for someone even if you don't agree with what they believe in. It's not hypocrasy, it's the great story of Jesus Christ. It amazes me to one extent but at another I should have expected such reactions as it is forwarned.

    In light of this I'm going to provide a link. You can choose to read it or not, debate it or not. However I'm not continuing this debate as it is clear that people want to take what I say as a personal attack when I exclaim it isn't.

    http://bible.crosswalk.com/Diction....er=T348
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  4. #36
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for that fantastically one sided link.

    You made a general statement that WAS a personal attack. You said through a general statement that I was not fit for parenthood, that I chose to be gay, that being gay is abnormal, that heterosexuals (and thus you) are better than me/us, that christian churches who marry gays are in fact cults, that homosexuals are not equals, and you compared us to murderers. When you made those statements, they WERE personal attacks on every GLBT person.

  5. #37

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    The best way to not get into heated discissions is to not talk politics & religion they are the root of all evil. You say one thing, you are guaranteed to piss someone off. Takes years to build a friendship, takes 5 minutes to end one. It is especially true on public forums.
    \"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.\"
    -- Oscar Wilde

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  6. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I never directed what I said as a personal attack on anyone and I'm sorry you took it that way.
    Your opinions *are* an attack. Or shall we also claim that KKK members are just "expressing their opinions" by burning a cross in front of someone's home.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I'm sorry you cannot understand being able to love someone, and have compassion for someone even if you don't agree with what they believe in.
    It's not belief, it's who we are. I'm sorry your faith has brainwashed and blinded you to the indisputable fact that sexual orientation is not a choice, but you must realize that you are attacking who we are, not just something we do. It's no different from saying you have compassion for racial minorities but you don't like the color of their skin.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]In light of this I'm going to provide a link.
    Good, now how about a link that isn't factually incorrect and filled with logical fallacies and outright lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]However I'm not continuing this debate as it is clear that people want to take what I say as a personal attack when I exclaim it isn't.
    Maybe that's because it *is*. Seriously, open your eyes and look at things from another perspecitve. You'll be amazed how hateful you sound.


    Personally, I feel sorry for you. Your arguement are nothing but the usual crap, so it's clear you've not actually done any thinking for yourself on this issue; instead, you've listened to biased sources and just gullibly swallowed their mis-information whole, without ever actually exploring the other perspective, much less the actual evidence.

    God may want faith, but not blind faith. Galileo once said "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

    Do yourself a favor, and actually research this from an unbiased POV. Look at the evidence. Go and actually talk to some gay people, ask them if they ever 'chose'. Read the texts of other faiths. Read the histories of other lands. Read the scientific experiments and analyses done on the subject.

    What has disappointed me most in this arguement is not your view themselves, but that it's plainly obvious you've done none of the above, and as a result, I was left refuting the same old uninteresting tripe that we've known is inaccurate for years. At least do some research and give some *good* reasons - make the debate worth my time.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  7. #39
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]... If they had comfortable lives, they probably wouldn't hate us. The fact is that U.S. foreign policy with our need to control everybody's problem while we sit here watching it through our giant plasma TV's has made us as many enemies as friends.
    Funny thing though is that we don't generally see the poor man with nothing to lose hijacking a plane. No, it's generally a more well-to-do individual. If we were seeing people mosly or only from the lowest economic tier of society committing the acts, then I think we could have more argue about.
    I'm sure that economics plays a role in terrorism, but radical religion/beliefs have their fair hand in it (it's not just the poorest folks with nothing to lose comitting the acts.)

    Just something interesting to mull over.
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    It seems to me people like Mokele and JustLikeAPill have a bigger agenda than just getting equal rights for Gays/Lesbians. They want to use the law of the land to try and make homosexuality MORALLY equal to traditional marriage of two opposite sexes. It's never been about the civil rights of being married, it's always been about trying to be morally acceptable and it is not!

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