The upcoming election

[Tropics]

(Sorry, I don't know how to use the Quote button.)

-How is the economy doing Tropics?
-What are the unemployment figures?

The Republican Contract With America talks about the fiscal condition of the federal government (which Congress can control), and not about the economy in general (which responds to many other factors besides the actions of Congress). The federal government under the Republicans has incurred record deficits.

-Wasn't there some Democrat who made sexual advances toward an intern and a campaign worker?

Do you mean that Democrat who was later re-elected? In any case, the Contract With America was a Republican idea that Republicans promised to honor. However, they showed no moral leadership in handling the Foley case.

Maybe I didn't look closely enough. Did the Contract With America have a pull date?

 

[seedjar]

Quote[/b] (wolf9striker @ Nov. 01 2006,2:53)]Clint & Joe - Just because each of you went to school with a couple of kids that joined the armed forces and they werent 'honor roll students' does not mean that the less intelligent people are the only ones to join.  You cannot take a few examples that you are aware of and make a large generalization.  Take a look at a few studies, they show time and time again that specific age brackets in the armed forces have equal to or higher intellingence then the same age bracket of people in the US.

I didn't intend to make a generalization, Wolf, I'm stating that a few people I know are in this situation. And when I talk to friends of mine from other places around the country, they too usually have been acquainted with a few people who enlisted. I also have a number of friends and family whom are themselves enlisted, in a number of branches. And the overwhelming impression I get among the enlisted is that there is a sizable portion (if not a majority) of recent enlistees whom are not in a position to make an acceptable living in other occupations; these are kids that can't get jobs better than entry-level, and are in the military seeking employment skills. The way they see it, there simply is no other niche for them in our national economy. I don't claim to know the numbers, but I can say first hand, six of my seven enlisted acquaintences fit this bill, with the exception being a friend of mine who has a high school diploma and is in the Army until he can get a job with the local police force.
You're the one who decided I was talking about everyone, and you again demonstrate one of the logical fallacies that I pointed out earlier. You've decided I'm putting down everyone, while I'm only referring to a limited group of the individuals in question. Also, I'm not talking about intelligence, I'm talking about employment skills. Diplomas, college degrees, and work experience. What tears me up is that a lot of my friends in Iraq right now are smart kids that got shafted by our school and wound up with grades and test scores too low for decent colleges, who enlisted in the short term to make a decent living while improving their situation. I feel like our country, particularly our government, has let them down and taken advantage of them in many ways, and I know a lot of people who agree with me.

Quote[/b] ]I would rather start hearing more important news.  I think it was a bad joke personally, I dont think he would say what it seemed he said even if he thought it true.  There is an important election in about a week, this is just distracting from it.

Good to know there's things we can agree on from both sides of the fence. I don't understand why he would set himself up for this kind of thing, but then he isn't really running for anything so it could be that he had let his guard down. I would like to offer a little something I saw on tonight's Colbert Report with regards to Kerry's retraction of his comment. Kerry said that he missed an 'us' in his scripted joke;
"You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” -> "...If you don’t, you get us stuck in Iraq."
A number of people seem to think that his comment must have been directed at the military at large, even if he did misspeak, but I think this is fairly strong evidence otherwise. Whatever you think of what he actually said, this minor alteration yeilds a comment that couldn't possibly be directed at anyone but the President, or possibly a few other figures in the highest levels of command. In addition to the fact that Kerry is not running and simply offering political commentary as an excercise of free speech, this is a major reason why I think this has been seriously overblown as a psuedo-campaign media event. Why can't the democrats just parade up conservative figures like the Westboro Baptist Church to demonize the republican agenda? (Er, is Westboro too right for the republicans?) It all seems rather low.
~Joe

 

[ktulu]

Quote[/b] (JB_OrchidGuy @ Nov. 02 2006,5:11)]Now to the Isreali issue. I think we give them too much money. I do believe they have the right to defend themselves though. And if going in with bombs to kill those against them they so be it. There are plenty of ways for the "innocent" civilians to get out of the way of this stuff. They could stop harboring these folks. They could stop allowing them to setup shop in the appartment buildings. Now they may not be able to stop them dirrectly, but they could report the strongholds instead of not saying anything. I am sorry if crazed suicide loons are strapping on bombs and blowing up resurants and civilian areas of mine I am going to do what it takes to eleviate my problem. So you can blame the civilian deaths on those terrorist that hide their weapons and leadership in civilian buildings.

I agree we do give them too much money, in the tune of 4billion dollars a year for their military (so remember we paid for all those bombs droped on Lebanon). Now you say people have the right to defend themselves so groups like Hamas and Hezballah have the right to attack Isreali military instillations since Isreal illegally occupies their country (Palestine). Yet you make it sound as though you support Isreal. Isreal did not have to use bombs in the ways they did however, as Isreal chose to use cluster bombs and phosphrous (sp?) bombs in civilian areas when they had guided percision bombs equivillent to American bombs (we give them their technological advantage) And who are they going to report Hezballah to? The UN, America, Isreal, Lebanese forces clearly could not stop them who can they report them too. Why would they in that case do you have any idea who provides all the social services in that area, who provided the bomb shelters for people, who is rebuilding southern Lebanon, its Hezballah for all of those. Also you say its the terrorists fault but when did less than 10 deaths justify over 500 deaths. Isreal was clearly targeting civilians in my opinion. They were prepared to massacre the civilian population just like they did in 86. Dont blame this on Hezballah Isreal went way too far and took destruction to an extreme.

 

[Lauderdale]

Aaaww, come on guys.  I was just havin’ a little fun at Kerry’s expense.  You got to admit the guy hasn’t got a clue.  Even Jay Leno took a few shots at him. Lighten up.

Seedjar, the national unemployment rate is 4.5%.
About 1.5% of Americans are incapable of holding a job because of mental or physical limitations.  At any given time, 1% have purposely quit their job to seek better, higher paying employment and 2% just don’t want to work.  That is basically zero unemployment.  What is your plan to improve that figure?  

Entry level jobs are just that, low paying jobs that require little skill but provide entry into the job market.  I didn’t particularly like my first summer job during high school, a gofer on a construction site.  I sure as hades didn’t like my summer job during college as a gravedigger at Mount Calvary Cemetery.  They were far below my perceived station in life…but I needed money for my education.
What is wrong with enlisting in the military to seek employment skills?  You get three squares a day, free medical care and get paid for playing with all their neat toys…M-16s, SAWs, Abraham tanks, FA-18s, Spectre gunships…and making them go BOOM.


ktulu
You are correct ktulu.  It was Hezballah, not Hamas.  I stand corrected.
You are also right about Israel. Why would they have the audacity to invade Lebanon for such a minor thing like attacking a military position inside a sovereign nation, taking the soldiers hostage, killing JUST A FEW of them and then firing rockets at Israel?  Perhaps Israel should have killed JUST A FEW Hezballah and let it go at that.

And to lighten things up a little further.

Why most men are Republicans.

 

[Clint]

Quote[/b] (Lauderdale @ Nov. 02 2006,11:22)]Perhaps Israel should have killed JUST A FEW Hezballah and let it go at that.

... Yeah. They slaughtered the Lebanese. The isreali strikes weren't porportional at all.

 

[droseraguy]

DANG Lauderdale, here I thought an independent like myself wouldn't be swayed by propoganda but then you put up that poster. I must say there is something to be said for the Republican side. Is there one for the independent side ? Maybe the woman from Democracy Now ?

Sorry couldn't resist !

 

[Clint]

Well the dems have a reason to looked pissed! The republicans keep screwing up!

 

[Capslock]

Republicans are turned on by Laura Bush??

Capslock

 

[schloaty]

Quote[/b] ]I promised myself I would not post this. I really did…I lied.

Monday
John Kerry makes his “stuck in Iraq” statement.
The Republicans sharpen their swords.
Our troops use old Kerry campaign posters for target practice.

Tuesday
John Kerry says he will never apologize…that it was simply a botched joke.
Four members of his own party criticize him.
Bill and Hillary want no part of this one.
Nancy Pilosi is silent, no where to be found.
Kerry cancels all campaign appearances for the next day.

Wednesday
He apologizes to the members of our military. Says his statement was misinterpreted…no mention of the “joke” excuse.
Soooo…Was he for the botched joke before he was against it.
National news organizations show film clip of a platoon of soldiers in Iraq holding up a very large banner that says, “Help us John Kerry, we are stuck in Iraq.”

The best part about this is that Kerry blundered the scripted response he was supposed to give - His response was meant to be a dis against GWB.

If forget the verbatim script, but it was along the lines of "those without descent education wind up getting us stuck in a no win situation in Iraq."

And, as someone else mentioned, Kerry provided the republicans with a perfect distraction campaign. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with any current issues, or even any current candidates, but by God those politicians can spin anything any way they want. They're like word-accountants! The dems are no better, either, it just wasn't their turn.

 

[droseraguy]

Quote[/b] (Capslock @ Nov. 02 2006,12:57)]Republicans are turned on by Laura Bush??

Capslock

I wouldn't go that far, Hilary does have a strange appeal.

 

[Sarrfiend]

Quote[/b] (Capslock @ Nov. 01 2006,1:14)]He has indeed now apologized. But I think it's dishonest to say that this reveals that he thinks the military is stupid, and I think some of the "outrage" is manufactured to cover for real election issues. Can you believe we're days away from an important election, and we've been diverted to talking about a single sentence uttered in jest by someone who isn't running for anything? That can only happen as the result of a carefully managed campaign strategy. We should reject the temptation and focus on the actual election issues.

Casplock

These lefties just make me laugh! If you haven't noticed John Kerry since Vietnam hasn't supported the military. Look at all his previous stances about the military and the war in Iraq. This man is a joke! I mean seriously his own party cancelled future democratic campaigns because he spilled the beans!

Why does it matter what John Kerry says? Well since there really is no one else in the Democratic party that is considered the head Democrat, isn't it safe to say that he is? After all he was only the Democratic Presidential Candidate of 2004!

Carefully managed campaign strategy?!? LOL! Do the Republicans even have to come up with a strategy when we have dummies like John Kerry in the Democratic party?

I can only be thankful that the majority of the country isn't liberal, otherwise we'd have this laughable politician in office.

 

[seedjar]

Quote[/b] (Lauderdale @ Nov. 02 2006,8:22)]Seedjar, the national unemployment rate is 4.5%.
About 1.5% of Americans are incapable of holding a job because of mental or physical limitations.  At any given time, 1% have purposely quit their job to seek better, higher paying employment and 2% just don’t want to work.  That is basically zero unemployment.  What is your plan to improve that figure?  

That's reported unemployment; America counts the number of people collecting unemployment as the unemployed. It's been estimated that our unemployment rate tends to be about 8-10% higher than we actually say, when you factor in those who aren't collecting or eligible for unemployment benefits. Take a look at the news - we're not as bad off as we could be, and we've recovered since the instability in 2000, but the job market certainly isn't very strong right now.
I'm also not saying that people can't go into the military for job training. However, circumstances seem to have been engineered in which down-and-out citizens (who otherwise would have nothing to do with the military) enlist because they have no other option for supporting themselves, right before being sent into a dangerous, poorly organized war (by a guy who skipped out on his National Guard duty, adding insult to injury.) This just doesn't sit well with me - it seems manipulative and dishonorable. I have friends who are dead now because they thought that two years of guard service couldn't hurt since (at the time) things seemed pretty peaceful and relatively sane. You can make light about getting paid to play with neat toys, but what I know is that a very dear friend of mine was the third person in four consecutive weeks from her unit alone to take one of those 'toys' and blow her own brains out over what she saw and was forced to do in Iraq.
So I really don't think it's a laughing matter.
~Joe

 

[seedjar]

Quote[/b] (Sarrfiend @ Nov. 02 2006,12:11)]

Quote[/b] (Capslock @ Nov. 01 2006,1:14)]He has indeed now apologized. But I think it's dishonest to say that this reveals that he thinks the military is stupid, and I think some of the "outrage" is manufactured to cover for real election issues. Can you believe we're days away from an important election, and we've been diverted to talking about a single sentence uttered in jest by someone who isn't running for anything? That can only happen as the result of a carefully managed campaign strategy. We should reject the temptation and focus on the actual election issues.

Casplock

These lefties just make me laugh!  If you haven't noticed John Kerry since Vietnam hasn't supported the military.  Look at all his previous stances about the military and the war in Iraq.  This man is a joke!  I mean seriously his own party cancelled future democratic campaigns because he spilled the beans!

Why does it matter what John Kerry says?  Well since there really is no one else in the Democratic party that is considered the head Democrat, isn't it safe to say that he is?  After all he was only the Democratic Presidential Candidate of 2004!

Carefully managed campaign strategy?!? LOL!  Do the Republicans even have to come up with a strategy when we have dummies like John Kerry in the Democratic party?

I can only be thankful that the majority of the country isn't liberal, otherwise we'd have this laughable politician in office.

Why are you here? You don't seem to have much of significance to say about CPs or politics. How is it that Kerry hasn't supported the military? Don't you actually mean, "military action?"
And so I suppose that Kerry is now King of the democrats, since he ran as president? So can we make Bush King of the republicans? Yes, I think that sovereign rule over political groups shall be a smashingly productive exercise of democracy. What does being the 'head' of your party even mean? We should hold the entirety of the democratic party responsible for Kerry's public image? Then should we also assume that republicans are all ignorant rich kids whose parents and family held their hands through their entire careers? Guess what! Your party is irrelevant because your head hired a cabinet full of corporate criminals and has a police record as long as my leg.
Hmm, just doesn't quite have that democratic ring to it, eh? Give us a break, come back when you have a real comment to make instead of some hallow, hackneyed jab.
I can only be thankful that this country isn't run by people who fix elections, otherwise we'd have some... oh, nevermind.
~Joe

 

[Sarrfiend]

Quote[/b] ]
Why are you here? You don't seem to have much of significance to say about CPs or politics.

I'm here because I am allowed to voice my opinion just like you! Now you're going to question my significance on CPs and politics? Since when are your opinions the measuring stick It's amazing that you have acquired the same arguing techniques of your fellow Democratic politicians!

Quote[/b] ]
And so I suppose that Kerry is now King of the democrats, since he ran as president? So can we make Bush King of the republicans? Yes, I think that sovereign rule over political groups shall be a smashingly productive exercise of democracy. What does being the 'head' of your party even mean? We should hold the entirety of the democratic party responsible for Kerry's public image? Then should we also assume that republicans are all ignorant rich kids whose parents and family held their hands through their entire careers?

The actions of your Democratic party, which was to remove any future help from Mr. Kerry in the current Democratic campaigns answers your questions.

Quote[/b] ]
Guess what! Your party is irrelevant because your head hired a cabinet full of corporate criminals and has a police record as long as my leg.
Hmm, just doesn't quite have that democratic ring to it, eh? Give us a break, come back when you have a real comment to make instead of some hallow, hackneyed jab.
It's a good thing this country isn't run by people who fix elections, otherwise we'd have some... oh, nevermind.
~Joe

Somebody has watched the movie Conspiracy Theory a little too much! If you have so much against GWB and his cabinet why is it they are still in office? Because the leftest media that you take as fact is full of crap! Sorry to disappoint you sir but I'll voice my opinion appropriately when I want to. I don't take orders from you.

 

[seedjar]

It's not that I'm questioning your right to post here; it's your motivation. You've come from way out in the field and haven't really contributed anything to our group here, other than a few very abrasive and generally unjustified comments in this thread alone. I respect the views of everyone, and I hope that's expressed in my other posts - I do have heated feelings about these topics we've been discussing in this thread because they closely pertain to the safety and wellbeing of my friends and family. But when I hear a cogent, level argument from someone like Wolf9Striker, with whom I've previously had productive, civil discussions, it's a lot more welcome than someone I've never seen before who opens every post with a dig at the previous poster and has little but barbed opinionative statements to contribute.
Perhaps I misunderstood the news sources I've been reading, but the democrats weren't 'helping' Kerry in the current campaign anyways, because he wasn't running to begin with. Also, I'm not a democrat - nice try though. If you can name my voting profile in two more guesses I'll give you a prize!
The reason Bush and co. is still in office is many fold, and I as an individual have little to no power over that. Doesn't change the shady circumstances of his election, and the series of blunders and minor atrocities that ensued. Since when was being in power being right? Hitler controlled an awful lot of Europe for a while there - I guess we should all go out and commit genocide.
If you can't read the sarcasm in my posts and at least have a notion of what I'm getting at, your time could probably be better spent doing things other than writing haughty, off-base flames at people whom actually have things to contribute to the discussion.
~Joe

 

[ktulu]

I have another thing that i forgot to mention that is important to me, but that was missed due by most people to, in my opinion, less important but much "juicier" news (the mark folley fiasco). The loss of the writ of habeas corpus, or the right to appear in court and figure out why exactly you have been arrested in a nutshell. Does anyone realized what this means, our founding fathers are rolling in their graves. This means you can now be imprisoned and held indefinately without trial. This infact negates pretty much everything this country was founded on.

From the US constitution(this is that pesky thing that gives people rights) :“The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

This could be good news or bad news, its bad news if we have been invaded, but the good news is it could me we have started a rebellion against a government we no long feel represents us. I personally am hoping for the latter of the two options, though rebellions tend to be messy.

 

[Clint]

Oh hello Sarrfiend. Up to three whole post now are we? Oh, and I wouldn't talk about conspiracy theories if I were you.

 

[PlantAKiss]

Uh...Clint...watch that please.  

And I was JUST getting ready to make a post about how civil everyone was being with this discussion.  lol

Its a good discussion...keep it up.  

 

[Clint]

I'm sorry i'm sorry i'll edit.

 

[seedjar]

Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Nov. 02 2006,2:13)]I have another thing that i forgot to mention that is important to me, but that was missed due by most people to, in my opinion, less important but much "juicier" news (the mark folley fiasco).  The loss of the writ of habeas corpus, or the right to appear in court and figure out why exactly you have been arrested in a nutshell.

Excellent point ktulu; this is one topic that has definitely missed media attention. It doesn't sell well - 'corpus' just isn't a sexy word.

Quote[/b] ]Does anyone realized what this means, our founding fathers are rolling in their graves.  This means you can now be imprisoned and held indefinately without trial.  This infact negates pretty much everything this country was founded on.

More people should be angry about this.
~Joe