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Thread: What is patriotism?

  1. #9
    Lauderdale's Avatar
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    Patriotism is being willing to fight for your country when it is right.
    Patriotism is being willing to fight your country when it is wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Ehh.. I'm really not a big fan of America. America is not the land of the free. The Dutch are the most free people in the world!
    You DO live in Atlanta don’t you? Are you planing on moving soon?
    The Dutch are the freest? What the *&^% ?
    Do you suppose that the United States had anything to do with that? How many “non-free” Americans died freeing them from Herr Hitler?

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    Since we're sharing our thoughts on the value of patriotism, I would qualify it as a meaningless emotional buzzword. It is ill-defined (as this thread helps to show), making it useless to convey any actual meaning between two people. It is generally used to stir up emotions and label those with which one disagrees, but with whom one fears a logical debate. The word itself is an impediment to clear communication

    I would agree with herenorthere that it is a emotionally charged synonym for nationality, which by its very definition is the artificial division of groups of people based on arbitrary distinctions. It is the direct cause of a plethora of conflicts throughout history and the idea serves as nothing more than a detriment to society. Decisions should be based on situational ethics rather than a blind loyalty to the rights of a specific group of people over all others.

    However, if you’re asking for a definition that fits the positive emotions usually associated with the word that is where I would place the quote I posted earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Lauderdale @ Nov. 17 2006,9:44)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Ehh.. I'm really not a big fan of America. America is not the land of the free. The Dutch are the most free people in the world!
    You DO live in Atlanta don’t you? Are you planing on moving soon?
    The Dutch are the freest? What the *&^% ?
    Do you suppose that the United States had anything to do with that? How many “non-free” Americans died freeing them from Herr Hitler?
    The number of Americans that fought to free the Dutch is irrelevant to the argument of whether the Dutch are more or less free than Americans. Bear in mind, also, that freedom is not a yes/no proposition, but a continuum with a lot of grey area.

    Though I have little knowledge of Dutch laws and society, I agree with JustLikeAPill in that I'm not really 'a big fan of America' anymore. The American government, over time, reflects the will of the people, and seems to be moving more and more towards a socialist redistribution of wealth and a moral agenda that values the legislation of a subjective ethics over the freedom of the people. Though this country may have been founded on the idea of freedom, today there are indeed other countries that respect the personal and economic freedom of their citizens more than our own.

  4. #12
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    The US has been moving away from "a socialist redistribution of wealth" for a long time. Taxes have been cut for higher incomes, capital gains, estates, and for corporations. Those all lead to a growing disparity of income and personal wealth.

    Maybe if the US would give us something to be proud of, more of us would see some positive meanings for patriotism.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals — but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (herenorthere @ Nov. 17 2006,6:12)]Taxes have been cut for higher incomes, capital gains, estates, and for corporations.
    Awww... c'mon. You don't think they are patriots? The politicians... our government rely on those people to get elected.
    There's a tunnel at the end of the light...

  6. #14

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    IMHO, patriotism isn't necessarily thinking your country is currently or always right, but rather thinking that the basis of the county's governmental system and society is valid, worthwhile, and good (regardless of how it may have been perverted since its inception).

    This is actually something I had to give a fair bit of thought to, since, unlike most, I actually had to voluntarily choose citizenship in my country of residence (USA). It's far from perfect, but IMHO it has the ability to rapidly adapt, which is a very beneficial feature, and it was deliberately founded recently, meaning a clear set of principles were elucidated right from the get-go (Ok, if we ignore the whole Articles of Confederation nice guy-up) that are recent enough to be well-remembered.

    Plus, well, the US is kind of the 800lb gorilla that sits wherever it wants in science; in spite of our crappy educational system, most of the great minds either are here, or trained here. So really, it's the best place for me, given my aspirations towards academia.

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

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    Mokele, I've been waiting for you. It's awesome that you used "elucidated" and "get-go" in the same sentence.
    There's a tunnel at the end of the light...

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