User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 12 of 16 FirstFirst ... 28910111213141516 LastLast
Results 89 to 96 of 126

Thread: Reinstate the Draft

  1. #89
    Outsiders71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,005
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Nov. 20 2006,8:33)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Nov. 21 2006,2:00)]ktulu:

    Why is it ok for the Jews to be kicked out of their land but not ok for the Muslims?
    Let me answer this directly.

    First where did I say it was ok for them to be thrown out of their land? I dont recall saying that.

    Secondly, Im not even saying they dont have a right to live there now, I just think if they want to live there they need to be willing to live with the current occupants. Even the UN agrees that Palestine and Isreal should have been one secular state.

    Third, I was saying that the Palestinians were not the ones who caused the Jews to leave, I dont know the exact reason why the ones who ended up in Europe moved there, but my point is it wasnt the Palestinians who expelled them and the Palestinains shoudlnt have to pay the price for Germany's mistake (face it with out the Holocaust Isreal would never have been created).
    Ok then there was a misunderstanding. Just for knowledge I want to post the history of Jerusalem's control:

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    The city of Jerusalem was founded during the second millennium B.C., and the construction of the first Jewish temple in about 1000 B.C. established it as a holy city. Since that time, Jews have regarded it as their political, religious and spiritual capital although they have not always held control. In 586 B.C., the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem, sent the Jews into exile and destroyed their temple, but a few decades later, the Jews were able to return and rebuild a second temple. In the centuries that followed, Greeks, Egyptians, Syrians and Romans controlled Jerusalem, with a period of Jewish rule around the turn of the millennium. The Jewish population grew in strength and maintained freedom of religious practice in Jerusalem until about 70 A.D., when the Romans destroyed the city and the temple, which was never rebuilt.

    The years preceding the destruction of the second temple marked one of the most influential events in world history: the birth, ministry and death of Jesus of Nazareth. A Jewish teacher who advocated reform within Judaism, Jesus was regarded by many as a prophet and was ultimately executed in Jerusalem. His teaching, and the circumstances of his life and death, subsequently spawned the world’s largest religion, Christianity. The formation of Christianity would have great effect on the rule of Jerusalem, for in the early 4th century Constantine became emperor of the Roman Empire and converted to Christianity. Whereas under pagan Roman rule Christians (as well as Jews) in Jerusalem had been persecuted, Constantine issued an edict granting religious freedom to all Christians in his domain, and Christianity ultimately became the official religion of the Roman Empire. With Constantine’s changes came a tremendous surge of Christian building activity in Jerusalem. Churches were erected to memorialize events in the life and death of Jesus. Within Christian-dominated Jerusalem, however, there was little tolerance for the Jewish faith.

    In the early 7th century, the prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdallah inspired what was to become the world’s second-largest faith, Islam. Muhammad’s teaching, which began in Arabia, spread throughout the Middle East at a phenomenal rate. In 638, Muslims captured Jerusalem and began a 450-year rule. Islam arguably had a greater effect on Jerusalem than Christianity. Jerusalem’s Christian rulers had abandoned the area of the Jewish temple, whose destruction they saw as proof of God’s abandonment of Judaism and establishment of a new covenant under Christianity. The Muslims, however, recognized the sacred nature of the place and began erecting mosques and monuments, including the Dome of the Rock, the first great Muslim shrine. Furthermore, under Muslim rule, Jews were once again permitted to live in the city and to establish places of worship at its holy sites, and Christians were also granted religious freedom.

    Jews and Christians, however, were not legally considered equals of Muslims, and the co-existence of the three religions of Abraham was not always easy. At various times members of each group suffered persecution and the destruction of their places of worship. In 1071, Jerusalem came under Turkish control, and the destruction of the city and persecution of Christians prompted the Pope to call for a holy war for the control of Jerusalem. Less than 30 years later, Christian Crusaders had taken control of Jerusalem and slaughtered the city’s Muslims and Jews, but their reign was short lived, and Muslims retook the city in 1187. In 1517, the Turks conquered Jerusalem, which remained a part of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years. In this era were mixed periods of friendly and ill relations among the three religions, but sectarian strife increased, especially during the 19th century.

    After World War I, the British gained control of Palestine, including Jerusalem, and endorsed the idea of a national home for the Jews. This idea had developed toward the end of the 19th century, when European Jews began establishing colonies amid Palestine’s Arab and Muslim communities, and the Jewish population grew to become the majority in Jerusalem. After World War II, the catastrophe of the Holocaust increased international sympathy for the Jewish cause. In 1947, the United Nations resolved to partition Palestine into Arab and Jewish states, with Jerusalem designated as an international city. Bordering Arab nations resisted the establishment of Israel as an independent state and a war for Israel’s independence broke out in 1948.

    Following the 1948 war and the British departure from Palestine, an armistice agreement between Israel and Jordan divided Jerusalem between the two countries, in defiance of the U.N. partition resolution on Palestine (Resolution 181) and the international community. With Jordan in control of East Jerusalem—where sacred sites including the Temple Mount are located—Jews were denied access to their holy sites and Christians were subject to restrictions as well. In 1967, Israel seized the remainder of Jerusalem but restored access to sacred sites for all religions. In the decades that followed, Palestinian Arabs, most of whom are Muslim, have struggled to achieve their own statehood, which some feel should include all or part of Jerusalem, especially the sacred sites that crown the Temple Mount—the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  2. #90
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Metro Atlanta Area
    Posts
    9,681
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ugh it doesn't matter.

    Let's get back on topic guys.

  3. #91
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Metro Atlanta Area
    Posts
    9,681
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Babylonians rocked man.. I wanna be a babylonian!

  4. #92
    Outsiders71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,005
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ Nov. 20 2006,8:38)]No, I don't consider this flaming. I think they are being civil.

    We have to give a little man. We need to pull out our troops and set up schools. Send people who don't carry guns, for one. We need to fix the utilities. We need to let them decide what they want, not make them take it. We need to let the UN handle a lot of it instead of trying to be the Cop. We are Barney Fife.
    I just don't understand how pulling out our troops is going to stabilize Iraq into its own entity. If anything it will let brutal anarchy brew?

    Schools are good but a lot of the enemies we are fighting do not want its people educated.

    Christian missionaries and other organizations have went over there to help out the people of Iraq. Some of them were captured and slaughtered by the enemies we are fighting over there. I don't see our enemies not slaughtering us even if we pull out our troops.

    The UN has no backbone. A nuclear bomb goes off in N. Korea it takes over a week for them to respond to it. The fact is the U.S. makes up most of the UN, especially in volunteer soldiers :/.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  5. #93
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Metro Atlanta Area
    Posts
    9,681
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hmmm It's like cutting down a tree a guess... There is destruction and panic, animals freak out, then things stabalize and it's calm again.

    Basically I say get our men and women our and let them do their own thing. We already set up enough to get them started IMO. If they want a religious government, too bad for them but I think if that's what they want then let them have it. We still need diplomacy. Bottom line is terrorist are brainwashed and crazy. The gov. knew about it. I blame them for letting it happen.

  6. #94
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Olympia, Washington
    Posts
    4,064
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    By and large, Muslims are tolerant now. But in the past three decades, we've turned their governing organizations all on their heads. Any student of history can tell you that when a nation reassembles, dictators and extremists tend to rise to power early on.
    How am I ganging up on you? You're making blatantly inflammatory remarks among a bunch of people who have already come to a general concensus - why are you surprised that we all disagree with you?
    You ignore all sorts of points. Here are the most recent three:

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Nov. 20 2006,4:43)]Regaurdless of who was in the area first Palestinians had lived there, peacefully for thousands of years, and even welcomed the Jewish people PEACEFULLY into their state with the assumtion that they would assimilate into a secular state with the rights of both Palestinians and Jews protected until Zionists decided they needed their own country and did not want Muslim Palestinians living it.
    Here, ktulu makes the excellent point that Palistine made a gracious, peaceful offer to coexist with the Jews in Israel. Where, in your posts, did you take this into account? You didn't. You continued to insist that because the Jews got ousted violently, the Palestinians should be too. Whatever happened to forgiveness, or repentance?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Mokele @ Nov. 20 2006,4:35)]The ends do not justify the means, and furthermore, torture doesn't work! It has been repeatedly shown that confessions and information extracted under torture are so unreliable that you might as well just throw darts at a wall of random names, places and acts. People will say anything to stop pain, and that includes lying like crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Mokele @ Nov. 20 2006,4:35)]So, you'll be going back to Europe along with me when the United States of Native Americans forms?
    Two more excellent points, here questioning your views on nationalism and your assertion that torture is a necessary tool for intelligence-gathering. No responses here either.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Nov. 20 2006,4:10)]
    Actully most of the Jews that currently live in Isreal are from Europe. The Majority of the Jews in Palestine when Islam was founded converted to Islam, as did most Christians.
    This was earlier than the others, but I'm including it anyways because here, you totally ignored something that blew a tremendous hole in your argument; many of the Muslims that the Jews displaced with the founding of modern Israel were themselves descended from Jews who chose to stay in Palestine.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  7. #95

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    747
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    With drawing our troops now is going to further destablize the region. This would be the worst thing we could do, unless you would like to pay 4.50 for a gallon of gas. Syrian and Iran would use Iraq like satalite state to fight with each other, unless they felt it was time for them to take care of Isreal, in which case they would attack Isreal hoping the United States was sick of fighting and wouldnt sen help to Isreal, furthering the conflict to almost every country in the Middle East except for Jordan which would probably take its usual stance of we arnt getting involved with this crap.

    What really needs to be done in Iraq is we need to throw out our idealistic Idea that we will install a western style democracy in Iraq and accept that they need a strong government. The west created the lines of Iraq, not the Iraqi's and the groups historically do not get along. A weak government is not going to hold that country together, why do you think it took a dictator before. Im not calling for a dictator, but instead something like what Jordan has a very strong government which still protects freedom. Jordan has proven that you can create a stable, westernized Islamic state which protects your fundental freedoms. Thats what we need to do in Iraq. 10 million more American troops will not solve this problem, its something the Iraqis need to deal with now. Drafting troops and sending them to Iraq is going to do nothing.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  8. #96
    Outsiders71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,005
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    By and large, Muslims are tolerant now. But in the past three decades, we've turned their governing organizations all on their heads. Any student of history can tell you that when a nation reassembles, dictators and extremists tend to rise to power early on.
    So they have an excuse to be intolerant and react in ways they have recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Regaurdless of who was in the area first Palestinians had lived there, peacefully for thousands of years, and even welcomed the Jewish people PEACEFULLY into their state with the assumtion that they would assimilate into a secular state with the rights of both Palestinians and Jews protected until Zionists decided they needed their own country and did not want Muslim Palestinians living it.
    Read my history of Jerusalem. This is why I never responded.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Here, ktulu makes the excellent point that Palistine made a gracious, peaceful offer to coexist with the Jews in Israel. Where, in your posts, did you take this into account? You didn't. You continued to insist that because the Jews got ousted violently, the Palestinians should be too. Whatever happened to forgiveness, or repentance?
    Yes so great that they weren't allowed to go to certain sectors of Jerusalem. Once again I never replied to this because the link I posted did.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    The ends do not justify the means, and furthermore, torture doesn't work! It has been repeatedly shown that confessions and information extracted under torture are so unreliable that you might as well just throw darts at a wall of random names, places and acts. People will say anything to stop pain, and that includes lying like crazy.
    John McCain anyone? I know torture is wrong and I don't agree with it. The question I was trying to get you at is how do we extract intel from terrorists. What methods of extraction are appropriate and not considered torture? Can it be done without resulting in torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Two more excellent points, here questioning your views on nationalism and your assertion that torture is a necessary tool for intelligence-gathering. No responses here either.
    I never said torture is a necessary tool. Once again you are quick to put words in my mouth. I asked how do you get the intel?

    [quote]
    Actully most of the Jews that currently live in Isreal are from Europe. The Majority of the Jews in Palestine when Islam was founded converted to Islam, as did most Christians.

    This was earlier than the others, but I'm including it anyways because here, you totally ignored something that blew a tremendous hole in your argument; many of the Muslims that the Jews displaced with the founding of modern Israel were themselves descended from Jews who chose to stay in Palestine.
    ~Joe
    [/qutoe]

    This is simply not true.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •