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Thread: Reinstate the Draft

  1. #33
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    I'm not discrediting everyone. I'm actually discrediting a very small portion of the military - those people in command who had the power to stop this kind of behavior. Aside from that, these weren't just a few soldiers, and they certainly weren't AWOL - they were acting on direct orders. Look up the definition of your acronyms before you use them.
    I know Paul believed that the ends justify the means, but he was talking about casual lies to lead people to Christiandom and presumably salvation. But this is a petty, earthly matter of politics - should we say that it's OK to kill thousands of innocent people simply because we have unsupported assertions that the dictator of their nation might have dangerous weapons that they might (at some indefinite point) turn on us? This doesn't seem right to me, not logically, and not by any code of morals that I follow or am familiar with. It's like me saying that I have the right to kill you because some time down the road you might take a job that I need.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
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  2. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Nov. 20 2006,9:52)]The fact is just because the U.S.A. exists, and because our principles exist people will hate us and want to destroy us. It's the same with Israel (who's neighboring countries will not accept its existance). When you have enemies who do not accept your existance and despise that you exist how do you go about solving this problem? Ignoring them will just enable them to do more damage to us on our own ground because they will grow in numbers and sophistication. You can try to diplomatically fix things but once again we tried this before in the past and this just allowed for us to be minipulated by countries as Iraq and N. Korea. I whole heartedly wish that these things could be solved by us isolating our selves from everyone elses business and by diplomacy. But the fact is we live in a fast-paced globalized world today and hesitation leads to more innocents dying.
    First off, the reason we are hated is because of things like our ill concieved invasion of Iraq. Isreal is not reacognized by its neighbors because Palestine was an ally of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Jordan (who actully does recognize Isreal, though they do not like them) when Isreal was set down in the middle of Palestine and the Palestinians were told to leave, but thats a whole different issue which you should really research the truth behind instead of believing what your Isreali sympathetic Media tells you(many of whom are Isreali or have family in Isreal) The United States Blind support of Isreal is another reason we are hated, Isreal commits numerous war crimes and we rush them more bombs and ammunition and refuse to denounce their actions which target civilians. Also the fact that we keep our troops stationed in Saudi Arabia and do not respect the cultural values of the Saudi's is another reason we are hated. Our existance does not generate hatered and the only value the United States holds that generates hatered is our imperialistic goals. Also president Bush's clearly anti-Islamic stance doesnt help.

    Who ever said we should nuke Terran, yeah thats not going to give the extremists more ammunition to recruit more people into a Jihad to protect Islam from the United States. Hell that would probably get most moderates to believe indeed the U.S. is trying to wipe out Islam.

    But the real reason I think they want to institute the draft is that it takes alot of troop to maintain a police state. Our military cant possibly keep us all in line with its meager numbers left in this country. Now that they have pesky things like the right to privacy and the writ of habeas corpus out of the way all they need now is a large military force to keep us all bowing down to the government. All of you are right those European contries with their rights to privacy and freedom from unjust imprisonment, they are so much worse off than we are.

    All sarcasm aside though, if you really dont like a draft when it passes, dont leave, use your democratic rights in this country and try to start a recall election, remember the Vietnam war is still fresh in my (and many of your) parents generation and if a draft is instituted just remind them of that, they will likely help you bring down those who pass this measure if it passes. Dont forget there are ways to remove those in power if they do not serve you. Your government should be afraid of the power of the people, this is a democracy.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  3. #35
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ Nov. 20 2006,4:28)]Imposing our will is NOT democracy! For christ's sake! We have a VP who supports torture! Is democracy crushing someones car for stealing wood? WOOD! Is it the raping and killing of innocent civilians by soldiers? Is it torture?


    What does "isolating" ourselves have to do with ANYTHING? Are you saying that your isolated if you don't police the world? Who are we to police the world?
    So you are concluding that no one over there in Iraq wanted freedom from Saddams brutal dictatorship?

    We may have a VP who supports torture to get vital information from terrorists however we also have citizens who feel that these terrorists deserve the same rights as U.S. citizens. You tell me what is worse...

    Yes we already know there have been some a-wall soldiers who did terribly wrong things. No one supports what they did but thankfully they are the few and not the many.

    Isolation is a foreign policy option. We stay out of other countries businesses and don't interfere with anything they do. We let terrorists cells recruit and grow. We let them get better weapons and more training. Sound familiar?

    Who are we to sit and watch horrendus acts such as genocide happen when we can do something to prevent millions of people from dying? Who are we to just sit there and watch starving peoples die while we have surpluses of food? Who are we to watch sickly people die because they don't have access to vaccines and medicines? Who are we to just sit around and watch the AIDS cases grow in Africa when we have the knowledge to teach and educate Africans how to avoid contracting the disease?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  4. #36
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    "Aside from that, these weren't just a few soldiers, and they certainly weren't AWOL - they were acting on direct orders. Look up the definition of your acronyms before you use them."


    You mean like US Soldiers Crush Iraqi Citizen's Car as 'Punishment', and such? I havent heard that... can you cite some recent examples?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]instead of believing what your Jewish controlled Media tells you
    Exuse me, but... um... i havent heard that either... could you, um, cite some examples also?
    that makes no logic

  5. #37
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Most of my examples are from the personal experiences related to me by my friends stationed in Iraq and elsewhere. Watching news coverage on this stuff makes me too upset, ever since the prison torture thing surfaced. And like I said, most of the things I know of can't be repeated here. But I can give you one relatively tame example relayed to me by my friend Jonathan while he was in Afghanistan in 03/04 - he, and the rest of his unit, were ordered to take a village where there was said to be weapons smuggling going on. They had no translator - only a phrasebook - and things quickly turned violent. They ended up killing several dozen women and children taking shelter in the building that was used as a school before they learned that they had been deployed to the wrong town.
    I should note that not all of these things are the result of direct orders - many of them are, but other times these horrible things happen because soldiers don't have orders or training appropriate for the situation, and have to make a very stressful guess as to what they should be doing.
    But I can say that the guys in that video (and many other people guilty of warcrimes) weren't AWOL - they were where the military wanted them, doing the general things that they were sent there to do. They didn't desert their units and sneak into Iraq just to do things against the rules and make the military look bad.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  6. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Finch @ Nov. 20 2006,11:14)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]instead of believing what your Jewish controlled Media tells you
    Exuse me, but... um... i havent heard that either... could you, um, cite some examples also?
    I just phrased that statement poorly and have gone back and edit it.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  7. #39
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    First off, the reason we are hated is because of things like our ill concieved invasion of Iraq. Isreal is not reacognized by its neighbors because Palestine was an ally of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Jordan (who actully does recognize Isreal, though they do not like them) when Isreal was set down in the middle of Palestine and the Palestinians were told to leave, but thats a whole different issue which you should really research the truth behind instead of believing what your Jewish controlled Media tells you(many of whom are Isreali or have family in Isreal)
    We were hated before we were in Iraq. It's funny how people forget 9/11. Who's country did we invade then? Even before 9/11 why was our embassys bombed? What did we do then?

    Israel historically and rightfully belongs to the Jewish people:
    http://www.sacredland.org/world_site...Jerusalem.html
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  8. #40
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Outsiders, we had been pulling strings in Afghanistan for decades before 9/11. We turned an innocuous farming country into a hotbed of terrorist activity to use as our pawn against Russia, destroying the peaceful lives of hundreds of thousands of people caught in the middle. We didn't do it for humanitarian reasons; it was a move inspired totally by paranoia and cold-war-era lust for power. When they were no longer of use to us, we dropped them like a bad habit and left them to mend the damage caused by our war. They have every reason to be angry with us, as do many, many other nations. Please do some research.
    I agree with you that the Jews have a hereditary claim to Israel, but so do the other religious groups that have called that place home for millenia. What people are upset about is not that the Jews moved back, but that Israel (with the assistance of a US-sponsored hand-of-God) did so by forcibly, violently removing innocent citizens from the lands that they had lived on for generations.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

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